Re: hah

On Wed, 2005-04-20 at 08:27 -0500, Todd T. Fries wrote:
> I'm sorry, I must disagree with you on the RFC situation.  Cisco clearly
> states that they have IPR on this IETF standard:
>
>     Cisco believes that implementation of draft-ietf-vrrp-spec-05.txt
>     will require a license to Cisco's patent #5,473,599. If this
>     protocol is approved as an IETF standard, licenses will be available
>     to any party on reasonable, nondiscriminatory terms for implentation
>     of the protocol.
>
> And what exactly out of that says there is no IPR concerns?
>
> Who defines 'reasonable, nondiscriminatory terms' ?

You can also ask who defines the word or value and meaning of
'patent'... What is legal in one case is not in another.

> I am not aware of efforts to create some standard document that you seem
> to seek for CARP, but it must not be too hard, http://ucarp.org/ seems
> to have been able to implement CARP based on the initial CARP
> implementation in OpenBSD.

Indeed:
"It is based upon code from the OpenBSD 3.5 kernel, mainly from Michael
Shalayeff and Ryan McBride."

Aka they took the code from BSD and fixed up the glue into the various
OS's. This is not a specification. What if your OS is written in
Python/Perl/Java/.NET ? Then you can't copy it. Some people also do not
want to copy things.

Has anyone ever even submitted a draft to the IETF containing even a
mention of CARP? Just yelling "You Suck!" does not work in those cases.

Ever heard of interoperability? Or do you want M$ to include BSD code so
that everybody can scream again that it contains BSD code ? :)

And then suddenly the code in OpenBSD changes, which happens quite a lot
with several components. Then all the people who copied your stuff are
not compliant anymore. And as there is no specification they can't claim
to be compliant to it either.

To make it short: No vendor will incorporate CARP, because there is no
specification. If you want to shout, then write it down.

And no a lyric complaining about IPR does not count ;)

Greets,
 Jeroen

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