Re: Release process (was Re: DarwinPorts 1.3.1)

Dear Tabitha,

The "executive summary" expression was nothing more than a joke, and  
I only meant to close a thread already quite long. Thank you for your  
interest, I do feel pressured these days, but not by Apple employees,  
Jordan K. Hubbard included.

BTW, just "Paul" or "Paul Guyot" will do.

Regards,

Paul

Le 3 août 06 à 23:14, Tabitha McNerney a écrit :

> This may be completely off the wall but friends of mine have been  
> telling me
> how much the Ubuntu Linux distro is catching on and perhaps  
> knocking on the
> door of some established distros (such as Fedora). Part of the reason
> apparently is that Ubuntu is easy to use and one of my friends  
> swears by the
> package management system that Ubuntu uses (he said RPMs will be a  
> thing of
> the past).
>
> At a meta level, is there anything that Darwin Ports can generally  
> learn
> from the growing success of Ubuntu and its seemingly thriving  
> community?
> What is Apple's interest / role in interfacing with the Darwin Ports
> community just as it has (apparently done a nice job) at  
> interfacing with
> the parts of the KDE community that works on KHTML which has been  
> integrated
> into WebKit?
>
> It kind of worried me when I read earlier in this thread that Paul  
> Guyot
> felt compelled to give Jordan K. Hubbard an "executive summary"  as  
> if Mr.
> Hubbard is a potential investor or venture capitalist of some sort  
> which he
> most assuredly is not -- no personal offense intended.
>
> Its nice that Apple takes a cursory interest in Darwin Ports (saw
> Ernie Prabhakar
> chime in a recent thread saying "Interesting stuff!" regarding the  
> very nice
> work that Dr. Guyot did with the trace mode).
>
> Reading these threads where the Apple employees interject comments and
> suggestions, it concerns me because we have just been notified of  
> the demise
> of OpenDarwin and it feels as if Darwin Ports is kind of just  
> hanging in
> there by a few threads. It worries me further that Apple's DRM  
> policies as
> seen with the iPod might be psychologically seeping into the  
> collective
> consciousness in Cupertino, which I just can't help but wonder if  
> that was
> in any way connected to the demise of OpenDarwin. I hope not actually
> because I'm fond of Apple. I think it would be very interesting to  
> find out
> how many Apple employees inside Apple actually use Darwin Ports,  
> but I doubt
> this information would ever be published.
>
> On a final, note the recent contributions that Dr. Guyot has made  
> to Darwin
> Ports are very much appreciated by people such as myself who make  
> use of DP
> but are not fluent in Tcl ... I try to contribute in other ways  
> such as
> helping other people on the mailing list or contributing a bug  
> notification
> (testing if you will) but my contributions pale in comparison.
>
> I don't know Dr. Guyot -- never met him, and have never exchanged  
> email with
> him directly -- but the guy is obviously a sharp cookie with his  
> Ph.D (Dr.
> Ernie is not the only "doctor" in the house) focusing his research on
> "Agent-Based Participatory Simulations" as a Fellow computer  
> scientist at a
> place called the Honiden Lab in Tokyo, Japan. It seems that Darwin  
> Ports is
> also very much an international multicultural community which quite  
> possibly
> might not reflect the monoculture inside Cuptertino headquarters.
>
> As an unpaid Darwin Ports volunteer, Dr. Guyot inherited earlier  
> versions of
> Darwin Ports to work with (therefore ancestry dating back many  
> moons ago to
> the genesis of Darwin Ports which genesis may have been co-created  
> by Apple
> employees?). It is quite bad form, in my view for Dr. Guyot to be  
> put in the
> down position, thus causing him to feel pressured as if he should  
> provide a
> paid Apple employee with an executive summary. For Hubbard to  
> assert earlier
> in this thread that "DarwinPorts will never be more than an  
> intellectual
> curiosity until it evolves the infrastructure ... " is a rather  
> pompous and,
> in my view, sad statement. It sounds like something that would be  
> uttered
> from the voice of a person caught up in the monocultural hubris  
> found inside
> the depths of the Microsoft campus in Redmond (I know because I've  
> been
> there before), not from the interior of one of Silicon Valley's  
> Cinderella
> stories which started in the 1970s at 1 Infinite Loop, broke off  
> into NeXT
> for a while and then came full circle.
>
> Long live Darwin Ports? Or is the intellectual curiosity bit bucket  
> knocking
> on its door?
>
> Regards,
>
> T.
>
> On 8/2/06, Paul Guyot <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Le 3 août 06 à 17:15, Jordan K. Hubbard a écrit :
>>
>> >> Library injection gives enough granularity to be able to
>> >> independently:
>> >> - detect what the package refers to
>> >> - prevent the package from doing dirty things
>> >> - prevent the package from referring to things
>> >
>> > Which sounds like we're saying the same thing - I'm also advocating
>> > that the package not be able to "refer" to things like /usr/local/
>> > include/jpeg.h or /opt/local/bin/myfuzzylanguage at all unless it's
>> > also been explicitly specified in the Portfile as a dependency.
>> > Yet you've said in other messages that you don't want to deny opens
>> > (or attempts to exec) to either of those things, so now I'm  
>> confused.
>>
>> The keyword here is "independently". I'm just stating what library
>> injection can be used for, not what it should do for the very DP
>> project.
>> We still disagree: I don't think we should deny opens (third item),
>> while you think we should (and this is what chroot gives anyway).
>>
>> Let me provide you with an executive summary:
>> * We both consider that library injection can more or less provide
>> the same features as chroot+union mount, but it's more lightweight.
>> * You suggest to extend the library injection code to be equivalent
>> to chroot+union mount. You base this opinion on the fact that it's
>> just the way many binary package builder systems work, and this is a
>> strong argument indeed.
>> * I say: those systems use chroot. Library injection provides a
>> greater granularity we should take advantage of, in particular by not
>> denying opens but just recording them.
>>
>> I developed arguments for this in several other mails in this thread.
>>
>> Paul
>> --
>> Ministre ultraplénipotentiaire en disponibilité.
>> Mobile. Sans baignoire fixe.
>> http://www.kallisys.com/
>> http://www-poleia.lip6.fr/~guyot/ <http://www-poleia.lip6.fr/% 
>> 7Eguyot/>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>

-- 
Ministre ultraplénipotentiaire en disponibilité.
Mobile. Sans baignoire fixe.
http://www.kallisys.com/
http://www-poleia.lip6.fr/~guyot/