Re: notes on fossil, ANTS, and 9front/Bell labs controversies

Rodrigo G. López <[email protected]> Sat, 11 Jan 2020 20:32:42 +0100
Newsgroups gmane.os.plan9.general
Message-ID <CA+cCjXpnjuyOb5e59iaiiHAE9-=yV+qvT7rB8bRfAvrRm3hJzA@mail.gmail.com>
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yes that's right.

On Sat, Jan 11, 2020, 4:57 PM Steve Simon <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> using tlssrv is an option, as is import, but what was saying it fossil=E2=
=80=99s
> native 9p server does not support tls, which it doesn't - i dont believe
> anyone has added it.
>
> the issue is 9boot would need tls to be able download the kernel from a
> file server and it doesn=E2=80=99t have it. this is the labs boot procedu=
re of
> course.
>
> 9front booting uses a full kernel to bootstrap (correct me if i am wrong)
> so tls is not a problem there.
>
> anyway, fossil does not have tls and i would like to have. such a change
> would mean changes to the labs distro boot proceedure
>
> -Steve
>
>
> On 11 Jan 2020, at 10:42 am, Rodrigo G. L=C3=B3pez <[email protected]=
m>
> wrote:
>
> =EF=BB=BF
> i'm sorry, what? lack of TLS?
>
> go read 9front's tlssrv(8). it's been there for a while already.
>
>
> -rodri
>
> On Sat, Jan 11, 2020, 11:32 AM Steve Simon <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>> fyi i have been running a fossil/venti pair since 2004 and it has been
>> solid.
>>
>> what is too big - honest question.
>>
>> i thought the biggest issues are:
>>
>> performance - the elegance and generality sacrifice some performance,
>> though this is not a problem for me.
>>
>>  lack of a tls fs interface - there is (imho) no excuse for a lack of tls
>> these days.
>>
>> no way for a user in (say) the ventidump group to request an immediate
>> dump - handy for checkpointing a code release, though justing copying the
>> release to a new dir is ok.
>>
>> no way to push a vac score into the /archive hierarchy - nice for
>> migrating in other backups.
>>
>> all these are fixable and on my todo list but none have happened.
>>
>> > On 10 Jan 2020, at 9:37 pm, hiro <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >
>> > =EF=BB=BF
>> >>
>> >> The major fly in the ointment is the outdated sha1 hash function used
>> by venti
>> >
>> > major? fly? there's no problem with how sha1 is used by venti right no=
w.
>> >
>> > a more substantial complaint would be that the venti/fossil system is
>> > way too big.
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<html><html><div dir=3D"auto">yes that&#39;s right.</div><br /><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D"gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">On Sat, Jan 11, 2020=
, 4:57 PM Steve Simon &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">steve@quint=
ile.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br /></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=
=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br /></div><div dir=3D"ltr">using tlssrv is an =
option, as is import, but what was saying it fossil&rsquo;s native 9p serve=
r does not support tls, which it doesn&#39;t - i dont believe anyone has ad=
ded it.</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br /></div><div dir=3D"ltr">the issue is 9bo=
ot would need tls to be able download the kernel from a file server and it =
doesn&rsquo;t have it. this is the labs boot procedure of course.</div><div=
 dir=3D"ltr"><br /></div><div dir=3D"ltr">9front booting uses a full kernel=
 to bootstrap (correct me if i am wrong) so tls is not a problem there.</di=
v><div dir=3D"ltr"><br /></div><div dir=3D"ltr">anyway, fossil does not hav=
e tls and i would like to have. such a change would mean changes to the lab=
s distro boot proceedure</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br /></div><div dir=3D"ltr"=
>-Steve</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br /></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br /><blockquot=
e type=3D"cite">On 11 Jan 2020, at 10:42 am, Rodrigo G. L&oacute;pez &lt;<a=
 href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank=
">[email protected]</a>&gt; wrote:<br /><br /></blockquote></div><bloc=
kquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">&#xFEFF;
<div dir=3D"auto">i&#39;m sorry, what? lack of TLS?<div dir=3D"auto"><br />=
</div><div dir=3D"auto">go read 9front&#39;s tlssrv(8). it&#39;s been there=
 for a while already.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br /></div><div dir=3D"auto">=
<br /></div><div dir=3D"auto">-rodri</div></div><br /><div class=3D"gmail_q=
uote"><div class=3D"gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">On Sat, Jan 11, 2020, 11:32 AM =
Steve Simon &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>&gt; wrote:<br /></div><blockquote cl=
ass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;p=
adding-left:1ex"><br />
fyi i have been running a fossil/venti pair since 2004 and it has been soli=
d.<br /><br />
what is too big - honest question.<br /><br />
i thought the biggest issues are:<br /><br />
performance - the elegance and generality sacrifice some performance, thoug=
h this is not a problem for me.<br /><br />
&nbsp;lack of a tls fs interface - there is (imho) no excuse for a lack of =
tls these days.<br /><br />
no way for a user in (say) the ventidump group to request an immediate dump=
 - handy for checkpointing a code release, though justing copying the relea=
se to a new dir is ok.<br /><br />
no way to push a vac score into the /archive hierarchy - nice for migrating=
 in other backups.<br /><br />
all these are fixable and on my todo list but none have happened.<br /><br =
/>
&gt; On 10 Jan 2020, at 9:37 pm, hiro &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]=
m" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>&gt;=
 wrote:<br />
&gt; <br />
&gt; &#xFEFF;<br />
&gt;&gt; <br />
&gt;&gt; The major fly in the ointment is the outdated sha1 hash function u=
sed by venti<br />
&gt; <br />
&gt; major? fly? there&#39;s no problem with how sha1 is used by venti righ=
t now.<br />
&gt; <br />
&gt; a more substantial complaint would be that the venti/fossil system is<=
br />
&gt; way too big.<br /><br />
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