Re: Status Meeting (November 2020)

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From: Colin Finck <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Message-ID: <2f8f9658-3c6b-8de5-f19a-217774cb84ce-td3rRX5TIkhAfugRpC6u6w@public.gmane.org>
Subject: Re: [ros-dev] Status Meeting (November 2020)
References: <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>

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Am 25.11.2020 um 22:26 schrieb Herm=C3=A8s B=C3=89LUSCA-MA=C3=8FTO:
> What about that discussion about why we have ditched out MSVC 2010 supp=
ort

You mean reintroducing an ancient compiler that forces us to hack around =

its incapacity to deal with anything more modern than C89? One that=20
already makes it harder to import third-party components and attract new =

developers?

Let's face it, we already make our incredible job of writing a=20
Windows-compatible operating system even harder than Microsoft's - by=20
supporting both GCC and MSVC. We spend enormous amounts of time to just=20
get the basics right for both toolchains, and still fail at things like=20
the C++ standard library. Ditching MSVC 2010 finally paves the way for=20
importing a modern and trusted third-party C++ library like Clang's=20
libc++ to replace our hacked and unmaintained stlport. Going even=20
further, we could finally draw from the huge pool of talented C++=20
developers, who leverage the benefits of C++11 and beyond. Think about=20
that next time you debug a memory leak or a deadlock that would have=20
been impossible through std::unique_ptr or std::mutex.

This project won't ever become usable in a lifetime if we don't go with=20
the time but stick to old habits forever. There is no inherent value in=20
supporting old compilers, just wasted developer time.
And don't tell me about self-hosting: It's not like anybody productively =

uses ReactOS for building ReactOS right now. If you just want to=20
demonstrate that, use the RosBE GCC-based toolchain. I already spent=20
hours on backporting that back to ReactOS/Windows XP...


Now I usually would have put that on the agenda for the meeting and=20
asked for a vote.
But as this year's ditching of MSVC 2010 is just the implementation of a =

meeting decision from 2 years ago=20
(https://reactos.org/project-news/december-2018-meeting-minutes/),=20
meeting votes are apparently not considered binding here. Neither is=20
apparently the discussion we had in the related PR=20
https://github.com/reactos/reactos/pull/2658.


So let's have an open discussion and voting process right here on the=20
mailing list for everyone to see, to decide this once and for all!
Just reply to this mail, tell about your reasons - and more importantly=20
tell whether you support or reject dropping MSVC 2010 support.

Votes by CORE REACTOS MEMBERS are then counted on 1ST JANUARY 2021.


At this point, it should be obvious that I myself SUPPORT the decision=20
to ditch building ReactOS with MSVC 2010.


Cheers,

Colin


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