Re: Status Meeting (November 2020)
Hermès BÉLUSCA-MAÏTO <[email protected]> Wed, 2 Dec 2020 17:35:44 +0100
| Newsgroups | gmane.os.reactos.kernel |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <[email protected]> |
This is a multipart message in MIME format. --===============0644336138== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_02E3_01D6C8D1.9037E2B0" Content-Language: hr This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_02E3_01D6C8D1.9037E2B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A detailed investigation would be needed for sure, but I am currently = thinking about two things: - some Vista+ functions being used (for example: GetTickCount64, some = functions using the SRW locks =E2=80=A6) - the possible usage of apisets dlls. In any case in order to cope with that in ROS, we would need the = forwards-compatibility layer (almost) fully implemented, that can = =E2=80=9Cactivate=E2=80=9D the support for these Vista+ features at = runtime, for any program that requires it. =20 From: Ros-dev <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Magnus Johnsson Sent: 2. prosinca 2020. 17:22 To: ReactOS Development List <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [ros-dev] Status Meeting (November 2020) =20 Just a question from the outside here. If we look forward instead of = backwards, what work would it take to make *just the command line build = tools* work on reactos for newer versions? Is that something to strive for? Is there a missing API, is it = fundamentally incompatible in some way, is reactos 'target windows = version' wrong..? =20 Den ons 2 dec. 2020 kl 11:14 skrev <[email protected] = <mailto:[email protected]> >: I unfortunately don't get to contribute much anymore due to other = commitments, so my view has little weight here, however I just wanted to = throw my support behind Colin here in his effort to move the project = forward. Personally, I'd love to see reactos move to more modern standards, = allowing more emphasis to be placed onto modern C++ and the benefits it = brings: - Support for scoped resources and RAII - Better type checking - Stronger use of const correctness - Range based loops - Use of bool and nullptr instead of BOOLEAN/BOOL and NULL - Even use of the thing I hate the most ... auto =F0=9F=98=8A - STL in user mode - vectors, lists, etc - NATVIS support to make the above easy to debug - etc, etc, etc I'm not advocating that these should be requirements, or to ever try to = push devs to make use of them, but it would be incredibly useful to give = developers the option if they prefer, as so many developers no do. If it were me, I'd be tempted to drop VS2015 support too, only ever = supporting the last two major toolchains from any compiler. Ged. -----Original Message----- From: Ros-dev <[email protected] = <mailto:[email protected]> > On Behalf Of Colin Finck Sent: 02 December 2020 08:07 To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>=20 Subject: Re: [ros-dev] Status Meeting (November 2020) > 1. Visual Studio 2010 is the last version that works (or almost works) = > on ReactOS [...] > 2. Dropping useful features is not really a good idea at all. Oleg, nobody wants to take away any features here. VS2010 will continue=20 to run on ReactOS now and in the future. This discussion is merely about = *compiling ReactOS* with VS2010. Everyone, please put personal preferences aside and think about the big=20 picture: We don't have the workforce Microsoft had when creating Windows XP. The only way we can ever create a compatible OS is by leveraging modern=20 technologies not yet available back then and building on the open-source = work third parties have already done for us. If we however decide to limit us to 10-year-old technologies now, we can = do neither. Don't expect us to ever get this project into a usable state = in a lifetime then. The future of the project is at stake here! I don't want to repeat myself, so let me just link to the reasoning I=20 already gave: * https://reactos.org/archives/public/ros-dev/2020-December/019158.html * https://github.com/reactos/reactos/pull/2658#issuecomment-619540076 * https://github.com/reactos/reactos/pull/2658#issuecomment-629498043 * https://github.com/reactos/reactos/pull/2658#discussion_r427615924 * https://github.com/reactos/reactos/pull/2658#issuecomment-631113317 Best regards, Colin Finck _______________________________________________ Ros-dev mailing list [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>=20 http://reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev ------=_NextPart_000_02E3_01D6C8D1.9037E2B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" = xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" = xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" = xmlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" = xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta = http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8"><meta = name=3DGenerator content=3D"Microsoft Word 15 (filtered = medium)"><style><!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face {font-family:"Cambria Math"; panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} @font-face {font-family:Calibri; panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} @font-face {font-family:"Segoe UI Emoji"; panose-1:2 11 5 2 4 2 4 2 2 3;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {margin:0cm; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {mso-style-priority:99; color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} span.EmailStyle19 {mso-style-type:personal-reply; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:windowtext;} .MsoChpDefault {mso-style-type:export-only; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;} @page WordSection1 {size:612.0pt 792.0pt; margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;} div.WordSection1 {page:WordSection1;} --></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" /> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit"> <o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" /> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue = vlink=3Dpurple style=3D'word-wrap:break-word'><div = class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal>A detailed investigation would = be needed for sure, but I am currently thinking about two = things:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>- some Vista+ functions being = used (for example: GetTickCount64, some functions using the SRW locks = =E2=80=A6)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>- the possible usage of = apisets dlls.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>In any case in order to = cope with that in ROS, we would need the forwards-compatibility layer = (almost) fully implemented, that can =E2=80=9Cactivate=E2=80=9D the = support for these Vista+ features at runtime, for any program that = requires it.<o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div = style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm = 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>From:</b> Ros-dev = <[email protected]> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Magnus = Johnsson<br><b>Sent:</b> 2. prosinca 2020. 17:22<br><b>To:</b> ReactOS = Development List <[email protected]><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: = [ros-dev] Status Meeting (November 2020)<o:p></o:p></p></div><p = class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>Just a = question from the outside here. If we look forward instead of backwards, = what work would it take to make *just the command line build tools* work = on reactos for newer versions?<o:p></o:p></p><div><p = class=3DMsoNormal>Is that something to strive for? Is there a missing = API, is it fundamentally incompatible in some way, is reactos 'target = windows version' wrong..?<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p = class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p = class=3DMsoNormal>Den ons 2 dec. 2020 kl 11:14 skrev <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]= om</a>>:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote = style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm = 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5= .0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>I unfortunately don't get to contribute much = anymore due to other commitments, so my view has little weight here, = however I just wanted to throw my support behind Colin here in his = effort to move the project forward.<br><br>Personally, I'd love to see = reactos move to more modern standards, allowing more emphasis to be = placed onto modern C++ and the benefits it brings:<br>- Support for = scoped resources and RAII<br>- Better type checking<br>- Stronger use of = const correctness<br>- Range based loops<br>- Use of bool and nullptr = instead of BOOLEAN/BOOL and NULL<br>- Even use of the thing I hate the = most ... auto <span style=3D'font-family:"Segoe UI = Emoji",sans-serif'>😊</span><br>- STL in user mode<br>- vectors, = lists, etc<br>- NATVIS support to make the above easy to debug<br>- etc, = etc, etc<br><br>I'm not advocating that these should be requirements, or = to ever try to push devs to make use of them, but it would be incredibly = useful to give developers the option if they prefer, as so many = developers no do.<br><br>If it were me, I'd be tempted to drop VS2015 = support too, only ever supporting the last two major toolchains from any = compiler.<br><br>Ged.<br><br><br>-----Original Message-----<br>From: = Ros-dev <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>> On Behalf Of Colin = Finck<br>Sent: 02 December 2020 08:07<br>To: <a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a><br>Subject: Re: [ros-dev] = Status Meeting (November 2020)<br><br>> 1. Visual Studio 2010 is the = last version that works (or almost works) <br>> on ReactOS = [...]<br>> 2. Dropping useful features is not really a good idea at = all.<br><br>Oleg, nobody wants to take away any features here. VS2010 = will continue <br>to run on ReactOS now and in the future. This = discussion is merely about <br>*compiling ReactOS* with = VS2010.<br><br>Everyone, please put personal preferences aside and think = about the big <br>picture:<br>We don't have the workforce Microsoft had = when creating Windows XP.<br>The only way we can ever create a = compatible OS is by leveraging modern <br>technologies not yet available = back then and building on the open-source <br>work third parties have = already done for us.<br>If we however decide to limit us to 10-year-old = technologies now, we can <br>do neither. Don't expect us to ever get = this project into a usable state <br>in a lifetime then.<br>The future = of the project is at stake here!<br><br>I don't want to repeat myself, = so let me just link to the reasoning I <br>already gave:<br>* <a = href=3D"https://reactos.org/archives/public/ros-dev/2020-December/019158.= html" = target=3D"_blank">https://reactos.org/archives/public/ros-dev/2020-Decemb= er/019158.html</a><br>* <a = href=3D"https://github.com/reactos/reactos/pull/2658#issuecomment-6195400= 76" = target=3D"_blank">https://github.com/reactos/reactos/pull/2658#issuecomme= nt-619540076</a><br>* <a = href=3D"https://github.com/reactos/reactos/pull/2658#issuecomment-6294980= 43" = target=3D"_blank">https://github.com/reactos/reactos/pull/2658#issuecomme= nt-629498043</a><br>* <a = href=3D"https://github.com/reactos/reactos/pull/2658#discussion_r42761592= 4" = target=3D"_blank">https://github.com/reactos/reactos/pull/2658#discussion= _r427615924</a><br>* <a = href=3D"https://github.com/reactos/reactos/pull/2658#issuecomment-6311133= 17" = target=3D"_blank">https://github.com/reactos/reactos/pull/2658#issuecomme= nt-631113317</a><br><br><br>Best regards,<br><br>Colin = Finck<br><br><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>R= os-dev mailing list<br><a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a><br><a = href=3D"http://reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev" = target=3D"_blank">http://reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev</a><o:p></o= :p></p></blockquote></div></div></body></html> ------=_NextPart_000_02E3_01D6C8D1.9037E2B0-- --===============0644336138== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ros-dev mailing list [email protected] http://reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev --===============0644336138==--