Re: THE MOVEMENT...EVOLVING

Agree wholeheartedly Jason...the box is the Ferris Wheel. Which Mollison
himself often referred to. Lawrence its a pity you have to wallow to the
depths of personal attack and abuse rather than constructively put an
argument or debate together. You wonder why there us little constructive
intellectual debate on this site or many others. Perhaps you could show
some leadership and eliminate your personal abuse and insults. That could
be a good start to build up more comment from the wider membership.

What I am alluding to in suggesting the read of PofTEofZ is it gives us
another view another perspective in this who;e subject. Rather than keeping
our heads in the sand like ostriches who then leave there arses exposed to
be shafted .

What are say often in other circles is wake the F... up. A good site to
browse over that discusses such broader elements is www.wakeupkiwi.com What
it does is at least open our thinking to options further afield way outside
of the box Jason. There are a few more I could suggest but they me beyond
the horizon at this point of time.

Personally I am all for wider debate and trying to interpret what possible
truths exist rather than morphing to an ostrich or running off to my
evangelist.

I do look fwd to the ongoing unabated debate, constructively without abuse
and personal insults. To keep the door open to all so we can all grow in
consciousness and share that with our students....Steve Hart

Kia ora Ehoa

*Steve Hart*
*Ecology Architect*
Designer, Teacher, Builder of Ecologically Sustainable Resilient
Environments, through Urban Design, Architecture, Landscape Architecture
and Systems Ecology.​
Skype: tipenemanawa
Phone: +64 220 75 62 11



The Permaculture International College
www.permaculture <http://www.permaculturecollege.eu>education.com
https://permaculturecollege.academia.edu/SteveHart





On 23 April 2018 at 04:43, Jason Gerhardt <[email protected]> wrote:

> Scott wrote: "Seems we have lost our focus and are slipping back into the
> same old paradigm we were fighting to overcome.  The core of permaculture
> is "care" and care translates into love in most cultures."
>
> That's it. The only hope. Love. All the other interesting things about
> "Permaculture" must emanate from that center. A lot of people haven't found
> their center, which is why I've never been able to identify with a
> "movement" in permaculture. People are too busy chasing what we were all
> programmed to chase (money, fame, senses). Too busy with dogma (servants of
> ideas). Too busy building new boxes to contain and constrain (mental
> enslavement). "The goal is not to build a new box, it's to break down the
> walls of the box in the first place" (first heard from Joel Glanzberg,
> attributed to Malcolm X).
>
> At any rate, "Permaculture" as it is increasingly known, has increasingly
> little to do with permanence in culture. Time to look outside the box.
>
> Jason
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 22, 2018 at 3:52 AM, Lee Flier <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Well said, Scott. I’ve been put off by the Silicon Valley-ish
> capitalistic
> > fervor of a lot of folks calling themselves Permaculturists these days.
> > Love and care do indeed seem to be absent from the equation. I feel a
> > strong pull to practice in a much quieter way, and that’s mostly what
> I’ve
> > been doing. It’s not likely to make me rich, but that isn’t the goal.
> >
> > > On Apr 21, 2018, at 11:38 AM, Scott Pittman <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I think this can be "a" step, "the next big step" not hardly.  I don't
> > have much faith in "Transition Town" they don't seem to have much
> traction
> > in the U.S.A.  Too much focus on process and too little on action seems
> the
> > most common complaint.
> > >
> > > I also have given up on the IPC; I have flogged "invisible structures"
> > through four IPC's with my Elephant in the Room sessions and have been
> met
> > with scorn, approbation, and lack of interest.  The genome seems to be
> > configured to capitalism in most humans and I see that greed trumps (that
> > word again) "care". Without a major focus on ethics permaculture is mired
> > in the swamp of "herbal spirals" and "swales" and I, frankly, am bored to
> > tears with both subjects.
> > >
> > > What brought me to permaculture was the ethics, principals and
> invisible
> > structures; all the rest was "technique".  Seems we have lost our focus
> and
> > are slipping back into the same old paradigm we were fighting to
> overcome.
> > The core of permaculture  is "care" and care translates into love in most
> > cultures.  Love has been at the core of virtually every spiritual
> tradition
> > since the maternalistic societies of the middle east and as such have
> > endured the ravages of time, though much diminished by religiosity
> > > a "carrot/stick" pedagogy.
> > >
> > > Where that leaves me is to continue thinking my way through how to
> > escape the mire of the current paradigm ( and certainly Trump is a huge
> > harbinger of this paradigm) without violence, and lies.  I am still
> > puzzling my way through my book "Dharma of Permaculture", but it is not
> an
> > easy task.  I am also trying to maintain so faith in the divine nature of
> > man, though I often want to sink into the nihilistic "fuck it".
> > >
> > > Scott Pittman
> > > Permaculture Institute
> > >
> > >> On 4/20/2018 10:50 AM, Steve Hart wrote:
> > >> This event could be the next big step ?
> > >>
> > >> https://blog.p2pfoundation.net/transition-together-an-
> > international-symposium-on-the-need-for-societal-
> > transitions-and-systems-level-change/2018/02/19
> > >>
> > >> ​I assume there will be many UK Permies in attendance and also sure we
> > all
> > >> look fwd to the summaries and ongoing steps. Finally it seems many of
> > our
> > >> "Invisible Structures" are coming out of the closet. Perhaps the
> reality
> > >> and truth behind all the ghosts and smoking mirrors will be exposed to
> > to
> > >> allow us to better interpret where we have come from and how our
> > societies
> > >> have been conditioned, to then move forward.  Hopefully we can evolve
> > this
> > >> thread through IPCs​
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> *Steve Hart*
> > >> *Ecology Architect​. *
> > >> Designer, Teacher, Builder of Ecologically Sustainable Resilient
> > >> Environments, through Urban Design, Architecture, Landscape
> Architecture
> > >> and Systems Ecology.​
> > >> Skype: tipenemanawa
> > >> Phone: +64 220 75 62 11
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> The Permaculture International College
> > >> www.permaculture <http://www.permaculturecollege.eu>education.com
> > >> https://permaculturecollege.academia.edu/SteveHart
> > >> permaculture mailing list
> > >> [email protected]
> > >> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> > >> https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> > >
> > > --
> > > Best regards, Scott Pittman Director Permaculture Institute
> > > permaculture mailing list
> > > [email protected]
> > > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> > > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> >
> > permaculture mailing list
> > [email protected]
> > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> >
>
>
>
> --
>
>
> Jason Gerhardt - Ecological Designer - Saint Louis, MO
>
> realearthdesign.com <http://www.realearthdesign.com>
>
> 720-496-9744
> permaculture mailing list
> [email protected]
> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
>
permaculture mailing list
[email protected]
subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture