Raynaud STV, and counting STV with equal-rank as approval
Kristofer Munsterhjelm via Election-Methods <[email protected]> Tue, 31 Mar 2026 23:54:00 +0200
| Newsgroups | gmane.politics.election-methods |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <[email protected]> |
This is a belated response to something Paul asked me on the Electorama chat a while ago. We were talking about using Raynaud as an STV analog that has more broad support, and that thus would give an incentive for candidates, even given proportional representation, to care about the opinions of voters who are not directly aligned with them. He said that it would probably be a good idea to allow voters to equal-rank candidates, and then asked if it would make sense to count them the way Approval does: that a ballot like A=B>C should be counted as one vote for A and one for B. The answer, I think, depends on just what equal-rank means. I tend to think a reasonable interpretation is that the voter is indifferent between the candidates, or mroe generally, estimates that it would be more hassle to find out which they prefer to the rest than the possible return they'd get by breaking the tie. With such a model, what different types of weighting (approval, fractional, or counting for none at all, e.g. the last suggestion of https://electowiki.org/wiki/Single_transferable_vote#Ways_of_dealing_with_equal_rankings ) should all work. The more Approval-like you get, the more power equal-ranking gives you, but as long as the STV part of the method stays the same, what equal-rank gives you with Approval is mainly the "ability to go first". That is, if the STV loop itself is like: 1. Count first preferences (with some way of counting equal-rank) 2. Determine if someone is above quota 3. If so: 3.1. Elect that candidate 3.2. Set the total weight of every ballot that contributed to the candidate's election equal to the surplus divided by that candidate's support 3.3. Remove the candidate from every ballot and go to 1. 4. Otherwise, 4.1. Eliminate a loser (in some way, e.g. Raynaud) 4.2. Go to 1. then you should still have Droop proportionality as long as step one reduces to plain first preferences if there's no equal-rank. I'm not sure how the different choices of counting first preferences (Approval vs fractional) would affect proportionality beyond Droop, though -- whether say, Approval would be more majoritarian (or less) than fractional counting in my simulations -- because I don't have a good practical simulation model that has voters equal-rank candidates. But beyond that, approval ballots may be more loosely defined. In single-winner Approval they're not meant to show indifference or dichotomous preferences. Since STV isn't a cardinal method and wasn't designed as one, I doubt that it would pass cardinal proportionality criteria. It's not constructed to pass something like EJR, and so I don't think it would. If voters were to approach Approval Raynaud STV like single-winner Approval and only use two rank levels, it would be Approval-ish between categories, but it wouldn't explicitly preserve cardinal proportionality criteria. At least I don't think so. I haven't done much analysis on this. --- On a separate note, Raynaud might be a good base method to extend to a Condorcet STV-like for other reasons: it's a very simple method (find the worst defeat, eliminate the loser of that contest, repeat), and for its simplicity, the single-winner version still passes Smith. It fails monotonicity (as most candidate-based elimination methods do). I don't think it passes clone independence, though. -km ---- Election-Methods mailing list - see https://electorama.com/em for list info