Re: Marxism and War: The Origins and History of Revolutionary Defeatism

Thanks, comrades, for your comments on my pamphlet.

1.I can assure Richard that the cover does not reflect a defeatist 
position concerning the Soviet War against bourgeois Poland (naturally, 
as an orthodox Trotskyist, I am on the side of the revolutionary USSR). 
The choice of the cover reflects rather that a) the pamphlet deals with 
the issue of war and so does the cover, b) the pamphlet deals with the 
Bolsheviks and so does the cover and c) it is a beautiful picture.

2.There is a certain misunderstanding in the critical comments by Mark 
and Tony. The focus of the pamphlet is the historical background and the 
essence of the doctrine of revolutionary defeatism. The focus is not how 
to apply it today. The purpose of chapter 9 (“/Revolutionary defeatism 
and its application today/”) is to give just a brief overview on our 
approach to the different kind of conflicts today.

3.Naturally, this does not mean that we have nothing to say about the 
rearmament in Germany and Japan. (See e.g. 
https://www.thecommunists.net/worldwide/europe/european-imperialism-a-shift-towards-armament-and-militarisation/, 
https://www.thecommunists.net/worldwide/europe/european-imperialism-is-in-a-trap/, 
https://www.thecommunists.net/worldwide/global/inter-imperialist-tensions-rise-between-japan-and-china/)

4.Naturally, we are opposed to all forms of bourgeois militarism. 
However, when there was a series of government initiatives to replace 
conscription with professional armies in Europe some years ago, we 
opposed this because – as Mark argues – conscription provides better 
opportunities for anti-militarist work.

5.I don’t know why Tony believes that I would oppose the Proletarian 
Military Policy (PMP). The pamphlet does not deal with this issue at 
all. Actually, our tradition has always supported the PMP. However, it 
is true that Cannon made dangerous concessions to social-patriotism 
during WWII when he suggested that the main enemy is not imperialism 
(incl. U.S. imperialism) but fascism (i.e. Germany and Japan). However, 
such mistakes are not a consequence of the PMP.

6.Tony’s defence of Draper is not justified. He argues that is wrong to 
say “/someone’s later politics decide whether their earlier analysis is 
valid./” But Draper critique of Lenin’s defeatism was written in 
1953/54, i.e. years after he resp. the Shachmanites adopted the terrible 
positions of supporting Israel’s war of ethnic cleansing against the 
Palestinian people in 1948 and their refusal to defend the USSR – a 
degenerated workers state at that time – against Western imperialism.

7.The fundamental problem with Draper’s critique of defeatism is that he 
does not understand its essence and it seems to me that Tony repeats 
this mistake when he writes: “/Draper’s real point, which the pamphlet 
ignores, is that Lenin used 'defeat is the lesser evil' in at least two 
conflicting ways: as a special case for Russia and as a general slogan 
for all countries at war./” But, as I did show in the pamphlet, Lenin’s 
defeatism was directed against all imperialist powers from the very 
beginning (see the quote from the Bolshevik’s Manifesto published on 1 
November 1914). Furthermore, the slogan of the lesser evil is not an 
international, “objective” judgement which imperialist power is the 
lesser and which is the more dangerous enemy. It is a political 
statement of intransigent opposition against each and every imperialist 
power.

8.Tony’s critique of the RCIT’s so-called “campism” is wrong and 
reflects his Shachmanite approach. I believe that it reflects his/their 
refusal to differentiate between imperialist and semi-colonial states 
and to support the latter against Great Powers. (See also his statement 
in the last paragraph “/We do not support any state fighting against 
ours/” which means the refusal to support the Iranian, Afghan or Iraqi 
resistance against the U.S. occupation forces.) However, as we did 
already discuss this issue several times at this list, I will limit 
myself at this point to refer to some of our writings (see these two 
books 
https://www.thecommunists.net/theory/anti-imperialism-in-the-age-of-great-power-rivalry/ 
and https://www.thecommunists.net/theory/great-robbery-of-the-south/; on 
the issue of campism see article 
https://www.thecommunists.net/worldwide/africa-and-middle-east/iran-war-are-we-campists/)


Am 27.06.2026 um 23:55 schrieb Richard Fidler via groups.io:
> I am intrigued by the cover on this pamphlet, which is described as a 
> "Bolshevik Propaganda Poster published during the Polish-Soviet War in 
> 1920."
> Marxism and War: The Origins and History of Revolutionary Defeatism - 
> RCIT - Revolutionary Communist International Tendency 
> <https://www.thecommunists.net/theory/origins-and-history-of-revolutionary-defeatism/>
>
> Is the RCIT suggesting that the Bolshevik offensive war against 
> Poland, shortly after Poland's achievement of independence from 
> Tsarist Russia, was an example of "revolutionary defeatism"? The 
> offensive against Poland following the Bolsheviks' defeat of the 
> Polish armed intervention against Ukraine, was controversial within 
> the Bolshevik leadership (Trotsky, the Red Army commissar, opposed 
> it). And it turned into a total disaster; the Red Army troops were 
> decisively defeated by the Poles and retreated in complete disarray, 
> committing many atrocities along the way.
>
> The story is told in Paul Kellogg's book, Truth Behind Bars, “Truth 
> Behind Bars” | Athabasca University Press 
> <https://www.aupress.ca/books/120285-truth-behind-bars/>. See chapter 
> 6: "Poland and Georgia - The Export of Revolution."
>
> Richard Fidler
> 


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Groups.io Links: You receive all messages sent to this group.
View/Reply Online (#42212): https://groups.io/g/marxmail/message/42212
Mute This Topic: https://groups.io/mt/119987077/6024700
-=-=-
POSTING RULES & NOTES
#1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
#2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived.
#3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern.
#4 Do not exceed five posts a day.
-=-=-
Group Owner: [email protected]
Unsubscribe: https://groups.io/g/marxmail/leave/10173629/6024700/1441833971/xyzzy [[email protected]]
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-