Rib Tips and the Law of Value-Supplemental Info

 Comrades,

My earliest online name was 'Red Kronstadt'.  Looking up my thoughts
on the Kronstadt
Rebellion
<https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=Kronstadt+Rebellion>,
I chanced upon the fact that *OPE-L had, without my knowledge, engaged in a
debate (attached (though the links are now defunct, the positions of the
debaters are given in that attachment)) regarding an early paper of mine*
"Rib Tips and the Law of Value" (also attached):

This is how AI describes it: "*The phrase references a famous historical
debate among Marxist economist*s on online forums like OPE-L in the early
2000s, where user *Red Kronstadt posed a clever puzzle* about the law of
value: *Why do a pound of ribs and a pound of rib tips have drastically
different retail prices* at a BBQ stand,* even though they* come from the
exact same animal and *take the exact same amount of labor-time* to butcher
and cook?  *The debate uses BBQ to challenge and explore fundamental
Marxist economic concepts*: https://www.google.com/search...
<https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dred%2520kronstad%2520rib%2520tips%2520and%2520the%2520law%2520of%2520value%26client%3Dfirefox-b-1-d%26hs%3DEop%26sca_esv%3De1de1afd13af4db2%26biw%3D1280%26bih%3D624%26sxsrf%3DAPpeQntdLtds4nAHva3cOqoaQebZ4E4wVA%253A1782764757958%26ei%3D1dRCao6VOsTZkPIPnN3X0A0%26ved%3D0ahUKEwjO0_agpK2VAxXELEQIHZzuFdoQ4dUDCBI%26uact%3D5%26oq%3Dred%2520kronstad%2520rib%2520tips%2520and%2520the%2520law%2520of%2520value%26gs_lp%3DEgxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAiKnJlZCBrcm9uc3RhZCByaWIgdGlwcyBhbmQgdGhlIGxhdyBvZiB2YWx1ZTIFECEYoAEyBRAhGKABSO58UIsFWNd6cAJ4AJABAJgBXaABlBSqAQIzMrgBA8gBAPgBAZgCIqAClhXCAggQABjvBRiwA8ICCxAAGIkFGKIEGLADwgIEECMYJ8ICCxAAGIAEGIoFGIYDwgIFEAAY7wXCAggQABiABBiiBMICBRAhGKsCwgIFECEYnwWYAwCIBgGQBgWSBwIzNKAHzKkBsgcCMzK4B48VwgcGMS4yOS40yAdAgAgB%26sclient%3Dgws-wiz-serp%26fbclid%3DIwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTAAYnJpZBExRm5UZlpDUXFqdjl3aDZVUHNydGMGYXBwX2lkEDIyMjAzOTE3ODgyMDA4OTIAAR7WAJZ7ZdOUPdkEVFFEaovOKc_2MpNZ7d7PIA6mLlGmfzbWBBVP65Grq8RWfw_aem_jC4Mx-v38AjRCNuDotounA&h=AUDdKo1Pr9mGhuQh0dSPCWg0qGrRJ57L2xBgXFAuM4KNHgX0fWTv3tw4dNY5LfhiNZQKzIOor8Is8eJVG-RcMDJqDWathi0iQtG9fFOvkmVeZpCrkCmHnrmBzPXs8yffG24sQ3vWKnnM-UbNeMONU5wqP4UzMcsF&__tn__=R]-R&c[0]=AUA6cFNezbDQSqd9OE_mETeCxN4g7YfAh5NarAMntA038gpZfl5xAklKomKbRblGjubXanIA7eidi-hs_I9gOtWkZamBj55Fi3PRTU2fjCNeEaaY8NbBHMs2jaEZ77Siu5CQ3ro9xPBL2Y2wI7ZpoOEJ5jIun_xbnxE40l2adN9Y5VLHHQWszlQBSG8a2E2cWfcWvSrc8Ktk3pQ6msI>

A slightly different search of the same thing revealed:

*The mention of Red Kronstadt in the context of rib tips* and the *law of
value** refers to a specific, legendary 2005 debate among Marxist political
economists *on an internet mailing list. [1
<https://users.wfu.edu/cottrell/ope/archive/0502/0055.html>]
A user named "Red Kronstadt" (likely a reference to the historical
Bolshevik uprising) posed an ingenious micro-economic puzzle to the group: [
1 <https://www.marxists.org/history/ussr/events/kronstadt/izvestia/06.htm>,
2
<https://brewminate.com/laying-the-foundation-for-the-soviet-union-1917-1921-from-revolution-to-a-new-structure/>,
3 <https://www.marxists.org/history/ussr/events/kronstadt/izvestia/11.htm>]

   - *The Premise:* *Ribs and rib tips* come from the exact same
animal and *are
   separated by the exact same amount of necessary, simultaneous labor*. [1
   <https://users.wfu.edu/cottrell/ope/archive/0502/0086.html>, 2
   <https://users.wfu.edu/cottrell/ope/archive/0502/0055.html>]
   - *The Paradox:* At any given BBQ joint, *you will pay a higher price
   per pound for ribs than for rib tips, even though their "socially necessary
   labor time"* (the foundation of the Marxist Law of Value
   <https://mronline.org/2022/08/10/red-theory-marxism-and-the-law-of-value/>)
   is identical. [1
   <https://mronline.org/2022/08/10/red-theory-marxism-and-the-law-of-value/>,
   2 <https://users.wfu.edu/cottrell/ope/archive/0502/0055.html>]

*This thought experiment challenges orthodox Marxist price theory*, which
argues that prices naturally gravitate toward labor-value. The group
debated several theories to solve the riddle: [1
<https://mronline.org/2022/08/10/red-theory-marxism-and-the-law-of-value/>,
2 <https://users.wfu.edu/cottrell/ope/archive/0502/0055.html>]

   - *Utility and Demand:** The market determines value not just by the
   labor put into the item, but by its "use value"* or consumer
preference. *Ribs
   are leaner* and have better meat-to-bone appeal, *driving up demand and
   therefore price*. [1
   <https://mronline.org/2022/08/10/red-theory-marxism-and-the-law-of-value/>,
   2
   <https://www.facebook.com/61567817962362/posts/-viral-video-sparks-prison-food-debate-a-video-of-an-inmate-cooking-in-a-prison-/122173538726593932/>,
   3 <https://www.blinkist.com/en/books/value-s-en>, 4
   <https://digitallibrary.un.org/record/719485/files/ebrary9789280811940.pdf>,
   5 <https://lifeandthyme.com/food/profiles/handy-standings-guide-beef/>]
   - *Capitalist Joint Production:* Both cuts are a byproduct of the same
   butchering process. Because ribs are highly desired, they subsidize the
   cheaper, less-demanded rib tips.

*The discussion provides a fascinating real-world critique of how supply,
demand, and consumer preference interact *with the fundamental Law of Value
<https://users.wfu.edu/cottrell/ope/archive/0502/0055.html> governing
commodities.
If you want to dive deeper into this economic theory, I (AI) can:

   - Explain the basics of *Marx's "socially necessary labor time"*
   - Discuss how *capitalist joint production* prices secondary byproducts
   - Detail the role of *"use-value" vs "exchange-value"* in a market  red
   kronstad rib tips and the law of value



-- 
JAI


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