Re: THE URBAN MINER, AN EXO-INDUSTRIAL PROLETARIAN INDEPENDENT WORKER
"John A Imani via groups.io" <[email protected]> Wed, 29 Jul 2026 14:51:32 -0700
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--wgx8v09CIcd7TbDAG1FQ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Jul 29, 2026 at 10:40 AM, Mark Baugher wrote: >=20 > 1. Deskilling is part of the process that no doubt leads some people into > urban mining. I thought of it when you mentioned health care and how ther= e > has been a proliferation of "assistant" positions such as doctors > assistant, anesthesiologist assistant, nurses assistant, etc. as a means > of reducing the number of trained, credentialed workers and increase the > number of less skilled and lower-paid people. >=20 > 2. Are urban miners proletarians that produce surplus value? I stopped on > this since they work for themselves and sell their product at market rate= . > But if we think of the collection centers as employers, then they are > producing surplus value to the centers. >=20 >=20 >=20 Our Good Comrade, Thank you for your reading and your commentary. Agree with your observation about "deskilling". As regards whether the UM and surplus value, there was (and is) a reason fo= r the essay's title, part of which is "Proletarian Independent Worker."=C2=A0 It may have been clearer if a slash= (/) had been placed between proletarian and independent worker (hence 'Pro= letarian/Independent Worker') as these workers could be seen as a hybrid of= classes.=C2=A0 You hit upon this nexus with your question/statement as to = whether the UM produces surplus-value; while you state quite clearly--and I= agree--that they "work for themselves".=C2=A0 =C2=A0And hence cannot be fi= red.=C2=A0 Certainly these workers can be refused by this or that recycling= capitalist but there is nothing (save an unlikely collusion) that would pr= event the UM from the sale of his wares to another competing capitalist. The IW is posited as owning his own means of production and hence with his = production 1.) he shares the reward of his labor with no one; while this st= atement is an absurdity as 2.) if the IW's product produces no surplus-valu= e, for the capitalist then such a capitalist--and this worker's status as a= proletarian--there would not be. The answer to this conundrum, I think, lies in the state's intervention in = the marketplace.=C2=A0 The (state determined) recycling fee is undervalued = with a built in-profit margin for the capitalist who purchases the UM's rec= yclables.=C2=A0 A built-in margin of surplus-value that must have, could only have, be directly funded by the labor of the UM = and indirectly so by the 'recycling fee' paid by the consumer at its point = of purchase. The state charges a fee affixed to the good that is then paid by the retail= commodity purchaser.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Assuming that this 'purchaser' does not r= ecycle on his own, these 'nuggets' are then 'mined' by the UM from the tras= hcans (think of them as mines with the recyclables being veins of greater o= r lesser value (aluminum as opposed to glass)) and from there transported t= o the recycling center and purchased by its capitalist.=C2=A0 The state the= n repurchases these from that capitalist at a rate higher than that paid by= him to the UM.=C2=A0 But, assuming that the state does not engineer and ma= nage this process as a charity, the amount paid by the state to that capita= list is lower than the amount paid by the retail consumer, it is lower than= the amount paid to the recycling capitalist, it is lower than the amount p= aid to the UMs with the state itself pocketing the difference between the t= otality of these payments and the fee paid by the retail consumer appropria= ting part of this surplus-value for itself. The state is then both the bour= geoisie and a bourgeois :=C2=A0 i t is the objective manifestation of their= will as a class while it joins the producer capitalists, as partner, as a = direct participant in the appropriation of realized surplus value. The executive of the modern state is but a committee for managing the commo= n affairs of the whole bourgeoisie.=E2=80=9D https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/ch01.h= tm ( https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/c= h01.htm ) -=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D- Groups.io Links: You receive all messages sent to this group. View/Reply Online (#42699): https://groups.io/g/marxmail/message/42699 Mute This Topic: https://groups.io/mt/120503234/6024700 -=3D-=3D- POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. #4 Do not exceed five posts a day. -=3D-=3D- Group Owner: [email protected] Unsubscribe: https://groups.io/g/marxmail/leave/10173629/6024700/1441833971= /xyzzy [[email protected]] -=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D- --wgx8v09CIcd7TbDAG1FQ Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div>On Wed, Jul 29, 2026 at 10:40 AM, Mark Baugher wrote:</div> <div> <blockquote> <div>1. Deskilling is part of the process that no doubt leads some people i= nto urban mining. I thought of it when you mentioned health care and how th= ere has been a proliferation of "assistant" positions such as doctors assis= tant, anesthesiologist assistant, nurses assistant, etc. as a means of redu= cing the number of trained, credentialed workers and increase the number of= less skilled and lower-paid people.</div> <div> </div> <div>2. Are urban miners proletarians that produce surplus value? I stopped= on this since they work for themselves and sell their product at market ra= te. But if we think of the collection centers as employers, then they are p= roducing surplus value to the centers.</div> <div> </div> <div> </div> </blockquote> Our Good Comrade,</div> <div> </div> <div>Thank you for your reading and your commentary.</div> <div> </div> <div>Agree with your observation about "deskilling".</div> <div> </div> <div>As regards whether the UM and surplus value, there was (and is) a reas= on for the essay's title, part of which is</div> <div>"Proletarian Independent Worker." It may have been clearer if a = slash (/) had been placed between proletarian and independent worker (hence= 'Proletarian/Independent Worker') as these workers could be seen as a hybr= id of classes. You hit upon this nexus with your question/statement a= s to whether the UM produces surplus-value; while you state quite clearly--= and I agree--that they "work for themselves". And hence cannot = be fired. Certainly these workers can be refused by this or that recy= cling capitalist but there is nothing (save an unlikely collusion) that wou= ld prevent the UM from the sale of his wares to another competing capitalis= t.</div> <div> </div> <div>The IW is posited as owning his own means of production and hence with= his production 1.) he shares the reward of his labor with no one; while th= is statement is an absurdity as 2.) if the IW's product produces no surplus= -value, for the capitalist then such a capitalist--and this worker's status= as a proletarian--there would not be. </div> <div> </div> <div>The answer to this conundrum, I think, lies in the state's interventio= n in the marketplace. The (state determined) recycling fee is underva= lued with a built in-profit margin for the capitalist who purchases the UM'= s recyclables. A built-in margin of surplus-value</div> <div>that must have, could only have, be directly funded by the labor of th= e UM and indirectly so by the 'recycling fee' paid by the consumer at its p= oint of purchase.</div> <div> </div> <div>The state charges a fee affixed to the good that is then paid by the r= etail commodity purchaser. Assuming that this 'purchaser' does = not recycle on his own, these 'nuggets' are then 'mined' by the UM from the= trashcans (think of them as mines with the recyclables being veins of grea= ter or lesser value (aluminum as opposed to glass)) and from there transpor= ted to the recycling center and purchased by its capitalist. The stat= e then repurchases these from that capitalist at a rate higher than that pa= id by him to the UM. But, assuming that the state does not engineer a= nd manage this process as a charity, the amount paid by the state to that c= apitalist is lower than the amount paid by the retail consumer, it is lower= than the amount paid to the recycling capitalist, it is lower than the amo= unt paid to the UMs with the state itself pocketing the difference between = the totality of these payments and the fee paid by the retail consumer appr= opriating part of this surplus-value for itself. <span style=3D"color= : #000000;"><span style=3D"color: #000000;"><span style=3D"font-size: mediu= m;">The state is then both the bourgeoisie and a bourgeois</span><span styl= e=3D"color: #000000;"><span style=3D"font-size: medium;">: i</span></= span></span></span><span style=3D"color: #000000;"><span style=3D"font-size= : medium;">t is the objective manifestation of their will as a class while<= /span></span><span style=3D"color: #000000;"><span style=3D"font-size: medi= um;"> it joins the producer capitalists, as partner, as a direct participan= t in the appropriation of realized surplus value.</span></span></div> <div> <p class=3D"western" style=3D"line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0in;" align= =3D"justify"> </p> <p class=3D"western" style=3D"line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0in; widows= : 2; orphans: 2; margin-right: -0.5in; background: transparent;" align=3D"j= ustify"><span style=3D"text-decoration: none;"><span style=3D"font-weight: = normal;">The executive of the modern state is but a committee for managing = the common affairs of the whole bourgeoisie.”</span></span></p> <p class=3D"western" style=3D"orphans: 2; widows: 2; margin-right: -0.5in; = background: transparent;" align=3D"justify"><span style=3D"color: #0000ff;"= ><a href=3D"https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-mani= festo/ch01.htm"><span style=3D"text-decoration: none;"><span style=3D"font-= weight: normal;">https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist= -manifesto/ch01.htm</span></span></a></span></p> </div> <div width=3D"1" style=3D"color:white;clear:both">_._,_._,_</div> <hr> Groups.io Links:<p> =20 You receive all messages sent to this group. =20 =20 <p> <a target=3D"_blank" href=3D"https://groups.io/g/marxmail/message/42699">Vi= ew/Reply Online (#42699)</a> | <a target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:[email protected]?subject=3DRe:%20Re= %3A%20%5Bmarxmail%5D%20THE%20URBAN%20MINER%2C%20AN%20EXO-INDUSTRIAL%20PROLE= TARIAN%20INDEPENDENT%20WORKER">Reply to Group</a> =20 | <a target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:[email protected]?subject=3DP= rivate:%20Re:%20Re%3A%20%5Bmarxmail%5D%20THE%20URBAN%20MINER%2C%20AN%20EXO-= INDUSTRIAL%20PROLETARIAN%20INDEPENDENT%20WORKER">Reply to Sender</a> =20 | <a target=3D"_blank" href=3D"https://groups.io/mt/120503234/6024700">Mute= This Topic</a> | <a href=3D"https://groups.io/g/marxmail/post">New Topic</a> <br> <hr style=3D"width:25%;margin-right:100%">POSTING RULES & NOTES<br /> #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.<br /> #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived.<br /> #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern.<br /> #4 Do not exceed five posts a day.<hr style=3D"width:25%;margin-right:100%"= > <a href=3D"https://groups.io/g/marxmail/editsub/6024700">Your Subscription<= /a> | <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">Contact Group Owner</a> | <a href=3D"https://groups.io/g/marxmail/leave/10173629/6024700/1441833971/x= yzzy">Unsubscribe</a> [[email protected]]<br> <div width=3D"1" style=3D"color:white;clear:both">_._,_._,_</div> --wgx8v09CIcd7TbDAG1FQ--