Re: Profit and Value, was: Re(2): [ox-en] extrinsic motivation = coercion

Make that 3 types of scarcity:

1. Artificial scarcity of access to material and immaterial resources
enforced by monopolies and states/governments.

2. Intangible Scarcity (applies to things, mostly or only physical,
that can be replicated in identical copies but continue to be scarce
in the mind of people who are willing to pay a premium for the
original, e.g. Obama's socks or anything worn by a celebrity)

3. Natural scarcity of material resources.

#1 is used to enforce #2 and amplify #3, and in both instances the
reason is fear (fear of loss of individuality in case #2 an fear of
loss of means for survival in #3)


On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 9:04 PM, marc fawzi <[email protected]> wrote:
>> perhaps its possible to have an economy in that all profit goes to
>> growth and is not based on explotaition.
>
> I definitely WANT to believe that,,,
>
> and the P2P Energy Economy R3.00.00 is designed exactly to do that..
>
> However, despite my wanting to believe it so bad I am also starting to
> understand that scarcity is not a simple issue.
>
> There are two types of scarcity, only one is exploitative.
>
> 1. Artificial scarcity of access to material and immaterial resources
> enforced by monopolies and states/governments.
>
> 2. Natural scarcity of resources.
>
> The second type is real but is relative to production capacity of the
> planet. A planet that is 10X bigger than earth with 10X the natural
> resources has 10X more abundance and 10X less scarcity. But for any
> given size planet if the population grows not only faster than the
> factories, farms and human production systems can keep up but also
> faster than the planet can keep up then it will pass the breaking
> limit and the population would have to shrink for life to continue
> (see: logistic map for population growth)
>
> Only the first type of scarcity is exploitative. The second type is at
> some point (after doing all we can to promote sustainable abundance)
> due to a basic physical limit (the production capacity of the planet
> relative to population size) that we have to accept and I think the
> first type of scarcity is employed from a position of fear in order so
> that the second type of scarcity is deferred as much as possible, i.e.
> create artificial scarcity so that we don't run out of resources too
> soon (if everyone can get all the Gallium they want at cost [plus
> fixed profit margin] then we'll run out of gallium faster than if we
> artificially limit access to it which allows us to set an artificially
> high price
>
> I'll add this distinction between artificial and natural scarcity and
> the relationship between the two to the next release of the P2P Energy
> Economy after expanding on it...
>
>
> On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 8:13 PM, Diego Saravia <[email protected]> wrote:
>> 2009/5/7 Patrick Anderson <[email protected]>:
>>> On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 12:25 PM, Diego Saravia <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> [Converted from multipart/alternative]
>>>>
>>>> [1 text/plain]
>>>> 2009/5/7 Patrick Anderson <[email protected]>
>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 7:35 AM, marc fawzi <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> > If there is no profit margin,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Please read what I have written more carefully.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> We *SHOULD* charge price above cost.  There *SHOULD* be a profit 'margin'.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> why?
>>>
>>>
>>> For growth.
>>
>> ok,
>>
>> some people are trying to find out a way to stop growing,
>> others no,
>>
>> perhaps its possible to have an economy in that all profit goes to
>> growth and is not based on explotaition.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Diego Saravia
>> [email protected]
>> NO FUNCIONA->dsa-AySywPH+/[email protected]
>> _________________________________
>> Web-Site: http://www.oekonux.org/
>> Organization: http://www.oekonux.de/projekt/
>> Contact: [email protected]
>>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Marc Fawzi
> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/people/Marc-Fawzi/605919256
> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/marcfawzi
>



-- 

Marc Fawzi
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/people/Marc-Fawzi/605919256
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/marcfawzi
_________________________________
Web-Site: http://www.oekonux.org/
Organization: http://www.oekonux.de/projekt/
Contact: [email protected]