Re: On-topic and off-topic (was: Re: [ox-en] No more money trickery propaganda please)

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Hi folks


Having read some (but not all!) of the previous messages about exchange and appropriate content etc on [ox] I feel that I should moderate a bit what I said about "groupuscular" behaviour. It is probably appropriate for the maintainer to maintain boundaries and as StefanMn says there are other parallel and "friendly" project where such discussions can fruitfully develop. I guess the problem was more with the tone used and in particular the emotional charge of terms such as "trickery". Probably being more dispassionate and referring to the list or project's founding principles would be less confronting.
But conversely, P2PF people should respect the specificity of [ox] and recognise that it is a distinct though parallel space with its own history. In short: the goals are similar, differences can happen along the way, clarifications should be seen as useful, time will heal ego bruises if goodwill is applied.
cheers
mathieu


----- Original Message -----
From: Christian Siefkes <[email protected]>
Date: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 10:31 pm
Subject: On-topic and off-topic (was: Re: [ox-en] No more money trickery propaganda please)
To: [email protected]

> Hi all,
> 
> Stefan Merten wrote:
> > I remember that in the beginning of Keimform StefanMz, 
> Christian and
> > Benni banned this whole topic of money trickery altogether. 
> They were
> > more clever than me.
> 
> I don't think we explicitly "banned" anything, we just defined what's
> on-topic for us:
> 
>     Es geht um die Überwindung dieser 
> warenförmigen Gesellschaft, um die
>     Emanzipation der Menschen. Da Neues nicht aus 
> dem Nichts entsteht,
>     suchen wir nach Ansätzen im Jetzt - jenseits 
> von Wert, Markt, Staat.
>     Selbstorganisation und Selbstentfaltung sind 
> für uns zentrale
>     Grundlagen.
> 
>     Hier hören die Gemeinsamkeiten auch schon 
> auf. Wir haben
>     unterschiedliche Vorstellungen, welche 
> Denkformen, Theorien und Praxen
>     nützlich sein können. 
> [http://www.keimform.de/uber/]
> To translate roughly the core points: "We have more differences that
> agreements among us, but we agree on the goal of human 
> emancipation, of
> leaving commodity production behind us. Since the new doesn't 
> emerge out of
> nothing, we're looking for seeds of the new in the old. For us, 
> the new is
> not based on value, the markets, or the state, but rather on
> self-organization and 'Selbstentfaltung'."
> 
> So if somebody aims to just transform the old (a different kind 
> of market,
> of money, or of state) that would be off-topic for us. I think 
> that every
> project has some kind of topic definition, sometimes explicitly 
> stated,sometimes implicit, and the project will run more 
> smoothly if contributors
> keep this topic in mind.
> 
> Best regards
> Christian
> 
> -- 
> |-------- Dr. Christian Siefkes --------- [email protected] -
> --------
> |   Homepage: http://www.siefkes.net/   
> |   Blog: http://www.keimform.de/
> |   Better Bayesian 
> Analysis:           |   Peer Production Everywhere:
> |   http://bart-
> project.com/            |   http://peerconomy.org/wiki/
> |------------------------------------------ OpenPGP Key ID: 
> 0x346452D8 --
> Whenever philosophy has been taken seriously, it has always been 
> assumedthat it signified achieving a wisdom which would 
> influence the conduct of
> life.
>         -- John Dewey, 
> Democracy and Education
> 

****
Dr Mathieu O'Neil
Adjunct Research Fellow
Australian Demographic and Social Research Institute
College of Arts and Social Science
The Australian National University

E-mail: [email protected]
Tel.: (61 02) 61 25 38 00
Web: http://adsri.anu.edu.au/people/visitors/mathieu.php
Mail: Coombs Building, 9
Canberra, ACT 0200 - AUSTRALIA





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