Re: [ox-en] Re: Model of humans

Hi Robin and all!

Last week (13 days ago) Robin Upton wrote:
>> I think the benefit-seeking actor is fine. And Selbstentfaltung is one
>> of the highest forms of benefit.
>>    
> Benefit for whom? For self and/or others?

I'd say: at your choice. The concept of Selbstentfaltung implies that
it is good for me if other can Selbstentfalt as *they* prefer. I think
the underlying model is that everyone has a potential to be useful for
society as a whole and this potential is best developed by
Selbstentfaltung.

> But what's a benefit?

In fact IMHO there is no general concrete answer to this question. I
think what a benefit is should be left to those who are subject to it.

>> Work can be Selbstentfaltung - labor can not.
>>    
> Toil is another good word. There is such a thing as a "labour of love",
> but not a "toil of love".

Thanks for the word. It's always a bit difficult for non-native
speakers to find the best words.

I'm using the terms work and labor following Engels(?) who pointed to
this nice way to distinguish the concrete form (work) from the
abstract one (labor).

I looked up toil and I think toil relates more to the concrete doing
by a concrete person. I mean what is a toil for one person may be easy
going for another. Also toil may be a good experience - at least
afterwards ;-) . But at least in the Western tradition it is certainly
a major goal to eliminate toil altogether.

> Relationships with other people are essential to my life - not only
> for my material survival,
> but for me to make sense of the world, and feel at home in it.

Sure.

> I look forward to an economic system in which I can priority to
> relationships, rather than
> be concerned about fiat tokens of empire.

Well, I think how the relationships in the economy are shaped is a
good question. Lately I learned from StefanMz that they *are* shaped
differently. But I still think you should not confuse personal
relationships with economic relationships. But you probably don't do
this anyway.

> Selbstenfaltung may be different for others, but for me it's about
> discovering my place in
> relation to the rest of the world, and stretching myself into it.

I think this could even serve as a nice general description :-) .

> Bearing the above in mind, I can see a future taboo against some cases of
> conditional exchange. e.g. I will not treat your life threatening
> condition unless
> you give me some magic beans. In another context, it makes perfect sense.
> e.g. I will perform an operation on you unless someone gives me use of a
> sterile operating theatre for 3 hours and some trained staff.

But the latter is a factual precondition for the treatment - right?
You don't need to put this as a form of exchange when it's simply a
factual precondition.

That is perfectly the difference between alienation - some magic beans
not belonging to the process - and a concrete need - the facilities to
actually perform the treatment.


						Grüße

						Stefan

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