[wormhole] Intelligence or Biological Metaphors
EpSil0n-// <[email protected]> Mon, 11 Jan 2010 13:36:07 -0600 (CST)
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Hank Roth, on the InterNUT since 1982
Past (post) Commander Jewish War Veterans
* Cryptologist and Voice Security in the White House
and in the War Room for JCS at the Pentagon
BIO [with pics] http://inyourface.info/bio/
To subscribe to the Wormhole, go to http://inyourface.info/
--------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------
(See other articles in TheCrypt - http://inyourface.info/crypt/)
Permalink: http://inyourface.info/ArT/Sci/Ru.shtml
H O M E - C R Y P T - B I O
Intelligence
or Biological Metaphors?
One great unchartered territory for science (there are many) is the mind.
What is consciousness? And what exactly is intelligence?
I was listened to a podcast lecture from the Museum of Science in Boston
about bacteria and it really is amazing how much we are learning and how
much we don't yet know about what seems so simple, but isn't - the
bacteria which also lives in this super-organism we call our body with us.
I don't know who rules the roost, them or us?
Are bacteria really "intelligent" creatures which go about making a living
by establishing colonies? And together, like spores, they learn and make
intentional decisions. They may not be the automata we once thought they
were. But we have not yet caught up with the knowledge base on how
bacteria really make decisions.
"Recently there has been a lot of discussion of the cognitive capacities
of microbes, particularly eubacteria, when they live in communities of
many species (often referred to as biofilms). One of the common themes is
that bacteria have a kind of cognitive capacity based on their ability to
send "signals" to each other that affects the behaviour of the community."
( Evolving Thoughts Blog [December 10, 2007 8:43 PM, by John S. Wilkins])
"Signal transduction is a well known, if as yet not completely understood,
process. It is how neurons and other cells in our bodies affect each other
by passing chemicals between themselves, and activating processes in
response inside each cell. It is also how bacteria "communicate" in
communities." (ibod)
All of us are built from large carbon based molecules: macromolecules. And
We all share a lot of the same equipment and we are all the products of
evolutionary development. What part of this process is intelligent?
The cunundrum for science is in spite of all our high tech and all the
images we have of the brain, as much as we now understand molecular
interactions (we only knew one tenth as much a few years ago) we still
don't know how learning is accomplished beyond the firing of neurons and
how axons and dendrites react to electrical stimulation and signal
transduction (mentioned above).
Maybe we're looking in all the wrong places? Maybe we need to be looking
at those bacteria we share our bodies with - which make up a lot more of
bodies than we do and have 90% more cells than the mere 10% belonging to
us. So who rules, bacteria or us? There are 100 trillion bacterial cells
with bacterial DNA in our body to only 10 trillion cells with our DNA in
our bodies.
The gene is the basic building block for life ON THIS PLANET. We have no
idea what it would be elsewhere. Maybe it won't be carbon based? We don't
know. We know a lot about genes and comparative genomics and gene
sequencing has provided unimpeachable proof of evolution and the
connectiveness of all life on this planet.
But we don't know very much about consciousness,
altruism or intelligence.
Why do ants in colonies individually serve the greater good of the entire
colony? There is some kind of intelligence going on there - and in bee
hives and in any amalgamation of animals there is a `collective'
intelligence. Some animals are incredibly, shall we say, simple. Yet
together that simple-mindness adds up to incredible intelligence.
So do microbes think? We don't think they do, not the way we do anyway,
and not that we really know if they think?
"All life is intelligent, according to neurosurgeon Vertosick: "To be
alive, one must think." A practicing neurosurgeon, Vertosick maintains
that intelligence the ability to store experience and to use it to solve
future problems is an emergent property of groups. Thus, bacteria, the
immune system, and enzymes can be as smart as the human brain. All of
these entities operate within networks that communicate and adapt to
change in true Darwinian fashion. He further believes that this network
paradigm of problem-solving originated at the cellular level.
Unfortunately, some of his ideas, which he admits are highly speculative,
seem merely an exercise in semantics. He completely avoids the issue of
consciousness, which he dismisses as "irrelevant to his argument." At
times, he seems unnecessarily provocative, labeling those who would
disagree with him as "brain chauvinists" and arrogantly rejecting
nonclinical biologists as lacking in the proper perspective." (From
Library Journal - The Genius Within: Discovering the Intelligence of Every
Living Thing - by Dr. Frank T. Vertosick Jr)
Bacteria has the advantage in Darwinian terms or evolutionary terms of
altering itself very fast. Generational times are like every 15-20 minutes
for bacteria. Measure that against 25 years in generational time for
humans. It takes us 100 years to grind through 4 generations. Bacteria can
go through 50 generations in a day.
Little Lucy (Australopithecus afarenis), the hominid, had a pea sized
brain. We have about 1400 cc of brain but Neanderthals had bigger brains
than Homo sapiens and we survived, they didn't. Some say we may have eaten
them. Others say we hybridized with them. I prefer that conclusion myself
but we really don't know. We use to think the size of the brain determines
intelligence - but we're not sure.
So when RNA is transcribing DNA due to environmental causes, i.e.,
ultraviolet rays, toxics, and other unhealthy things genes mutate and the
beneficial mutations are exploited by their reproductive advantage over
time to become the dominant gene. Just how intelligent is that? Pretty
intelligent actually though not that anyone consciously thought about this
gene or that one. Natural selection does the thinking for us but would you
call that intelligence? It depends on how you define intelligence and how
much it really does.
Bacterial colonies confront an environmental toxin and random mutant
bactera are selected because the generational time is very fast that are
capable of neutralizing the toxin's lethal effect. We all need to be
thankful to the bacterial that lives in our guts for all the good work
they do - that is in addition to extraction of nutrients we might have
missed otherwise which these bacteria carry to our livers where metabolism
takes place and vitamins are integrated into our cells where they do some
good things.
You need to think twice when the doctors suggests streptomycin because
those antibiotics may kill infection but streptomycin also binds to
ribosomes and wrecks the fidelity of protein translation, killing
bacterial cells indiscriminately - even good bacteria.
Of course if there is the possibility of improving one's survival with
tuberculosis by using streptomycin you might want to consider using the
antibiotic - unless you are confronted with resistant strains of
Mycobacterium tuberculosis in which case it wouldn't do you any good and
might adversely affect your already ailing health.
Mutations are NOT so plentiful and beneficial mutations are rare. Most
mutations are inconsequential. They don't matter and they aren't selected.
Another words, as Frank Vertosick (also previous reference above) in The
Genius Within: Discovering the Intelligence of Every Living Thing, writes,
"random mutation alone seems inadquate for the task at hand. It seems
like, if Vertosick's thesis is correct, that some intelligence is
necessary for antibiotic resistance so maybe evolution is getting a little
help from intelligent bacteria colonies? He goes on to say, "Like
professional gamblers at a Vegas blackjack table, bacteria know the game
is random, but they also know a few tricks that can tilt the odds heavily
in their favor."
How about abiotic stress sensing and GABA (gamma-aminobutyric acid)
response in plants? Is the metabolic response the defense a plant develops
which improves breeding strategies (or transgenics) a form of
intelligence?
So how did we, Homo sapiens get to be so smart (whatever that really
means)?
Baby
F A T
"Three-quarters of a human infant's energy goes straight to the brain..
Given that babies are helpless, that sounds like a lot to spend on an
organ that is cognitively useless and does little to ensure a child's
survival...But human babies have extra energy to feed their brains. Unlike
other primates, human newborns are born with baby fat. That lovable chub
stores the energy needed to quench a baby's ravenous brain.. The fatter
the baby, the healthier its brain, the thinking goes.. A diet that
included fish and shellfish and particularly frogs and eggs would have
provided ancient humans, and their fattening babies, with the best source
of nutrients and minerals to foster brain development." ( Something Fishy:
How Humans Got So Smart By Corey Binns, Special to LiveScience [online] )
It Must Be the Fish
(GRIN)
Hank Roth
Related Content
All quotes are Fair Use for educational purposes
Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, Copyright Law
Comments: (1)
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Permalink: http://inyourface.info/ArT/Sci/Ru.shtml
Today is Monday January 11, 2010
AddThis
Worm Hole (Home) - The Crypt - Hank Roth (Bio)
G 0 l e m D e s i g n s
On the Internet since 1982
I have been doing it longer - and I do it better
previously known as pnews.org - now, known as inyourface.info
While I don't use a standard blog (weblog software) mostly because I've
been doing this too long - having been there with Ike when the precursor
to the Internet, Arpanet got started and every step of the way since, I
can't get into all the many fads over the years (now it is social
networking), but I have been an observer and participant in events which
shape the world since my time with NSA and with Army Security and as a
voice security cryptologist in the White House for the President, and the
War Room at the Pentagon for the Chairman of the Chiefs of Staff plus two
wars. You could say this site is one of the better kept secrets [grin] on
the InterNUT. You are invited back as often as you would like to see what
I and others, I trust, may be saying.
For many I have met, social networking and blogs are popular because those
who are enthrawed are, many of them, social misfits, but don't be deluded.
The net today CAN be a huge waste of time unless you are smart enough to
be discrimating about what you choose to believe as the truth (in science,
a theory better than those which came before it). Much of the InterNUT is
agenda driven and simply psycho babel for the otherwise lonely and
delusional who invent their own reality. Take it all with many grains of
salt. Read books, NOT blogs - Check credentials before you accept
someone's views as informed. Separate the real from the fantasy, the
customary world of us naked apes. Our species will eventually go extinct -
as we should. There is nothing special about us BUT the greatest
accomplishment you can ever have is (1) love and to (2) enjoy the journey.
As for the truth, you will always find it unblemished and as true as I
believe it to be when you read what is here. And if you don't agree, say
so, but keep it sincere and as honest as you dare to be - and as honest as
I always strive to be.
-- Hank Roth
[viewed 1004 times]
===============================================
* To subscribe to wormhole, send mail to
[email protected] and on the subject line
(without quotes) write: "subscribe wormhole" -
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"unsubscribe wormhole" on the subject line
to [email protected]
Hank Roth
http://inyourface.info/
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<p><br>
Hank Roth, on the InterNUT since 1982<br>
Past (post) Commander Jewish War Veterans<br>
* Cryptologist and Voice Security in the White House<br>
and in the War Room for JCS at the Pentagon<br>
BIO [with pics] <a href="http://inyourface.info/bio/">http://inyourface.<wbr>info/bio/</a><br>
<br>
To subscribe to the Wormhole, go to <a href="http://inyourface.info/">http://inyourface.<wbr>info/</a><br>
<br>
------------<wbr>---------<wbr>---------<wbr>---------<wbr>---------<wbr>--<br>
------------<wbr>---------<wbr>---------<wbr>---------<wbr>---------<wbr>--<br>
(See other articles in TheCrypt - <a href="http://inyourface.info/crypt/">http://inyourface.<wbr>info/crypt/</a>)<br>
Permalink: <a href="http://inyourface.info/ArT/Sci/Ru.shtml">http://inyourface.<wbr>info/ArT/<wbr>Sci/Ru.shtml</a><br>
<br>
H O M E - C R Y P T - B I O<br>
Intelligence<br>
or Biological Metaphors?<br>
<br>
One great unchartered territory for science (there are many) is the mind.<br>
What is consciousness? And what exactly is intelligence?<br>
<br>
I was listened to a podcast lecture from the Museum of Science in Boston<br>
about bacteria and it really is amazing how much we are learning and how<br>
much we don't yet know about what seems so simple, but isn't - the<br>
bacteria which also lives in this super-organism we call our body with us.<br>
I don't know who rules the roost, them or us?<br>
<br>
Are bacteria really "intelligent" creatures which go about making a living<br>
by establishing colonies? And together, like spores, they learn and make<br>
intentional decisions. They may not be the automata we once thought they<br>
were. But we have not yet caught up with the knowledge base on how<br>
bacteria really make decisions.<br>
<br>
"Recently there has been a lot of discussion of the cognitive capacities<br>
of microbes, particularly eubacteria, when they live in communities of<br>
many species (often referred to as biofilms). One of the common themes is<br>
that bacteria have a kind of cognitive capacity based on their ability to<br>
send "signals" to each other that affects the behaviour of the community."<br>
( Evolving Thoughts Blog [December 10, 2007 8:43 PM, by John S. Wilkins])<br>
<br>
"Signal transduction is a well known, if as yet not completely understood,<br>
process. It is how neurons and other cells in our bodies affect each other<br>
by passing chemicals between themselves, and activating processes in<br>
response inside each cell. It is also how bacteria "communicate" in<br>
communities.<wbr>" (ibod)<br>
<br>
All of us are built from large carbon based molecules: macromolecules. And<br>
We all share a lot of the same equipment and we are all the products of<br>
evolutionary development. What part of this process is intelligent?<br>
<br>
The cunundrum for science is in spite of all our high tech and all the<br>
images we have of the brain, as much as we now understand molecular<br>
interactions (we only knew one tenth as much a few years ago) we still<br>
don't know how learning is accomplished beyond the firing of neurons and<br>
how axons and dendrites react to electrical stimulation and signal<br>
transduction (mentioned above).<br>
<br>
Maybe we're looking in all the wrong places? Maybe we need to be looking<br>
at those bacteria we share our bodies with - which make up a lot more of<br>
bodies than we do and have 90% more cells than the mere 10% belonging to<br>
us. So who rules, bacteria or us? There are 100 trillion bacterial cells<br>
with bacterial DNA in our body to only 10 trillion cells with our DNA in<br>
our bodies.<br>
<br>
The gene is the basic building block for life ON THIS PLANET. We have no<br>
idea what it would be elsewhere. Maybe it won't be carbon based? We don't<br>
know. We know a lot about genes and comparative genomics and gene<br>
sequencing has provided unimpeachable proof of evolution and the<br>
connectiveness of all life on this planet.<br>
But we don't know very much about consciousness,<br>
altruism or intelligence.<br>
<br>
Why do ants in colonies individually serve the greater good of the entire<br>
colony? There is some kind of intelligence going on there - and in bee<br>
hives and in any amalgamation of animals there is a `collective'<br>
intelligence. Some animals are incredibly, shall we say, simple. Yet<br>
together that simple-mindness adds up to incredible intelligence.<br>
<br>
So do microbes think? We don't think they do, not the way we do anyway,<br>
and not that we really know if they think?<br>
<br>
"All life is intelligent, according to neurosurgeon Vertosick: "To be<br>
alive, one must think." A practicing neurosurgeon, Vertosick maintains<br>
that intelligence the ability to store experience and to use it to solve<br>
future problems is an emergent property of groups. Thus, bacteria, the<br>
immune system, and enzymes can be as smart as the human brain. All of<br>
these entities operate within networks that communicate and adapt to<br>
change in true Darwinian fashion. He further believes that this network<br>
paradigm of problem-solving originated at the cellular level.<br>
Unfortunately, some of his ideas, which he admits are highly speculative,<br>
seem merely an exercise in semantics. He completely avoids the issue of<br>
consciousness, which he dismisses as "irrelevant to his argument." At<br>
times, he seems unnecessarily provocative, labeling those who would<br>
disagree with him as "brain chauvinists" and arrogantly rejecting<br>
nonclinical biologists as lacking in the proper perspective.<wbr>" (From<br>
Library Journal - The Genius Within: Discovering the Intelligence of Every<br>
Living Thing - by Dr. Frank T. Vertosick Jr)<br>
<br>
Bacteria has the advantage in Darwinian terms or evolutionary terms of<br>
altering itself very fast. Generational times are like every 15-20 minutes<br>
for bacteria. Measure that against 25 years in generational time for<br>
humans. It takes us 100 years to grind through 4 generations. Bacteria can<br>
go through 50 generations in a day.<br>
<br>
Little Lucy (Australopithecus afarenis), the hominid, had a pea sized<br>
brain. We have about 1400 cc of brain but Neanderthals had bigger brains<br>
than Homo sapiens and we survived, they didn't. Some say we may have eaten<br>
them. Others say we hybridized with them. I prefer that conclusion myself<br>
but we really don't know. We use to think the size of the brain determines<br>
intelligence - but we're not sure.<br>
<br>
So when RNA is transcribing DNA due to environmental causes, i.e.,<br>
ultraviolet rays, toxics, and other unhealthy things genes mutate and the<br>
beneficial mutations are exploited by their reproductive advantage over<br>
time to become the dominant gene. Just how intelligent is that? Pretty<br>
intelligent actually though not that anyone consciously thought about this<br>
gene or that one. Natural selection does the thinking for us but would you<br>
call that intelligence? It depends on how you define intelligence and how<br>
much it really does.<br>
<br>
Bacterial colonies confront an environmental toxin and random mutant<br>
bactera are selected because the generational time is very fast that are<br>
capable of neutralizing the toxin's lethal effect. We all need to be<br>
thankful to the bacterial that lives in our guts for all the good work<br>
they do - that is in addition to extraction of nutrients we might have<br>
missed otherwise which these bacteria carry to our livers where metabolism<br>
takes place and vitamins are integrated into our cells where they do some<br>
good things.<br>
<br>
You need to think twice when the doctors suggests streptomycin because<br>
those antibiotics may kill infection but streptomycin also binds to<br>
ribosomes and wrecks the fidelity of protein translation, killing<br>
bacterial cells indiscriminately - even good bacteria.<br>
<br>
Of course if there is the possibility of improving one's survival with<br>
tuberculosis by using streptomycin you might want to consider using the<br>
antibiotic - unless you are confronted with resistant strains of<br>
Mycobacterium tuberculosis in which case it wouldn't do you any good and<br>
might adversely affect your already ailing health.<br>
<br>
Mutations are NOT so plentiful and beneficial mutations are rare. Most<br>
mutations are inconsequential. They don't matter and they aren't selected.<br>
Another words, as Frank Vertosick (also previous reference above) in The<br>
Genius Within: Discovering the Intelligence of Every Living Thing, writes,<br>
"random mutation alone seems inadquate for the task at hand. It seems<br>
like, if Vertosick's thesis is correct, that some intelligence is<br>
necessary for antibiotic resistance so maybe evolution is getting a little<br>
help from intelligent bacteria colonies? He goes on to say, "Like<br>
professional gamblers at a Vegas blackjack table, bacteria know the game<br>
is random, but they also know a few tricks that can tilt the odds heavily<br>
in their favor."<br>
<br>
How about abiotic stress sensing and GABA (gamma-aminobutyric acid)<br>
response in plants? Is the metabolic response the defense a plant develops<br>
which improves breeding strategies (or transgenics) a form of<br>
intelligence?<br>
<br>
So how did we, Homo sapiens get to be so smart (whatever that really<br>
means)?<br>
Baby<br>
F A T<br>
<br>
"Three-quarters of a human infant's energy goes straight to the brain..<br>
Given that babies are helpless, that sounds like a lot to spend on an<br>
organ that is cognitively useless and does little to ensure a child's<br>
survival...But human babies have extra energy to feed their brains. Unlike<br>
other primates, human newborns are born with baby fat. That lovable chub<br>
stores the energy needed to quench a baby's ravenous brain.. The fatter<br>
the baby, the healthier its brain, the thinking goes.. A diet that<br>
included fish and shellfish and particularly frogs and eggs would have<br>
provided ancient humans, and their fattening babies, with the best source<br>
of nutrients and minerals to foster brain development.<wbr>" ( Something Fishy:<br>
How Humans Got So Smart By Corey Binns, Special to LiveScience [online] )<br>
It Must Be the Fish<br>
(GRIN)<br>
<br>
Hank Roth<br>
<br>
Related Content<br>
All quotes are Fair Use for educational purposes<br>
Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, Copyright Law<br>
<br>
Comments: (1)<br>
Trackbacks<br>
Permalink: <a href="http://inyourface.info/ArT/Sci/Ru.shtml">http://inyourface.<wbr>info/ArT/<wbr>Sci/Ru.shtml</a><br>
Today is Monday January 11, 2010<br>
<br>
AddThis<br>
Worm Hole (Home) - The Crypt - Hank Roth (Bio)<br>
G 0 l e m D e s i g n s<br>
On the Internet since 1982<br>
I have been doing it longer - and I do it better<br>
previously known as pnews.org - now, known as inyourface.info<br>
<br>
While I don't use a standard blog (weblog software) mostly because I've<br>
been doing this too long - having been there with Ike when the precursor<br>
to the Internet, Arpanet got started and every step of the way since, I<br>
can't get into all the many fads over the years (now it is social<br>
networking), but I have been an observer and participant in events which<br>
shape the world since my time with NSA and with Army Security and as a<br>
voice security cryptologist in the White House for the President, and the<br>
War Room at the Pentagon for the Chairman of the Chiefs of Staff plus two<br>
wars. You could say this site is one of the better kept secrets [grin] on<br>
the InterNUT. You are invited back as often as you would like to see what<br>
I and others, I trust, may be saying.<br>
<br>
For many I have met, social networking and blogs are popular because those<br>
who are enthrawed are, many of them, social misfits, but don't be deluded.<br>
The net today CAN be a huge waste of time unless you are smart enough to<br>
be discrimating about what you choose to believe as the truth (in science,<br>
a theory better than those which came before it). Much of the InterNUT is<br>
agenda driven and simply psycho babel for the otherwise lonely and<br>
delusional who invent their own reality. Take it all with many grains of<br>
salt. Read books, NOT blogs - Check credentials before you accept<br>
someone's views as informed. Separate the real from the fantasy, the<br>
customary world of us naked apes. Our species will eventually go extinct -<br>
as we should. There is nothing special about us BUT the greatest<br>
accomplishment you can ever have is (1) love and to (2) enjoy the journey.<br>
As for the truth, you will always find it unblemished and as true as I<br>
believe it to be when you read what is here. And if you don't agree, say<br>
so, but keep it sincere and as honest as you dare to be - and as honest as<br>
I always strive to be.<br>
-- Hank Roth<br>
[viewed 1004 times]<br>
<br>
============<wbr>=========<wbr>=========<wbr>=========<wbr>========<br>
* To subscribe to wormhole, send mail to<br>
<a href="mailto:ecartis%40inyourface.info">ecartis@inyourface.<wbr>info</a> and on the subject line<br>
(without quotes) write: "subscribe wormhole" -<br>
To unsubscribe, do the same in reverse; send<br>
"unsubscribe wormhole" on the subject line<br>
to <a href="mailto:ecartis%40inyourface.info">ecartis@inyourface.<wbr>info</a><br>
Hank Roth<br>
<a href="http://inyourface.info/">http://inyourface.<wbr>info/</a><br>
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