RE: smooth out your pedal stroke *?*

I don't think we are in major disagreement 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: touring-bounces+araby=rogers.com-Wizm5X4GRk5g9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org
[mailto:touring-bounces+araby=rogers.com-Wizm5X4GRk5g9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of ernest
breakfield
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 9:12 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: smooth out your pedal stroke *?*

hi Roy!

     some of what you wrote here is the same as what i said, though i'm 
not sure i agree with everything i understood you to be saying.

     firstly, i understood the discussion to be in the context of 
pedaling technique, not what the bike "forces" you to do. all riding 
fixed gear "forces" you to do is to keep turning the pedals with your 
rear wheel, and don't believe that will necessarily develop your stroke 
to be any smoother.
     i think learning to keep an even tension on the chain will do more 
to smooth out your actual stroke than being "forced" to keep turning the 
pedals in sync with the rear wheel, and you can work on chain tensioning 
with any bike, fixed, single speed, or geared.

     as for hammering, i don't follow what you're trying to say there; 
there's no way to get up a hill sometimes with just one gear ratio 
without an effort i've known to be called "hammering" to get on top of 
the gear. if you meanturning a low cadence(as in"grinding"), i agree 
with you.

That's exactly what I meant. When seated and with clipless pedals I always
try to pedal all the way round on hills. Don't let anyone tell you that it's
ineffective. It can give an appreciable increment to power output
-particularly at low cadence.     
 ,
     i think i made clear my feelings about how riding fixed develops 
power over a wider range of cadences, and we seem to agree on that. i'm 
not sure, however that i believe that that is the *cause* of a smooth 
pedaling stroke (as i read you to be saying).

It's a question of whether the tail is wagging the dog or vice versa. In my
case I respond to the feedback from the bike which is what makes the fixie
concept so appealing as opposed to single-speed. I won't use the term "Zen"
to describe it, but I can understand what the person who coined the
expression meant.

     would love to know how and where you get the info you refer to 
about pedal effort v time; it sounds very much like the inertia conveyed 
through the drivetrain is counteracting the very factors that work 
towards creating a smooth pedal stroke. i believe it's just as possible 
to pedal with uneven forces while fixed... and can see how a fixed gear 
setup can even somewhat mask a 'chunky' irregular pedalling technique.
     i'd expect any skilled rider to be able to develop approximately 
the same pedal-force waveform no matter which type of bike they were 
riding if all other factors were equal. (i'm taking it as a given that 
most any skilled rider, especially a tourist, would not often be 
coasting in-between pedal strokes.)

That's precisely what I meant. Every time you free wheel, your pedaling
effort drops to zero. When you resume pedaling there is a step change in
effort from zero to what effort you employ. I don't know any one doesn't
freewheel -particularly downhill. On a fixie your effort will become
negative downhill but the change from  negative to positive effort will be
much more progressive (hence smoother) than if you have been freewheeling. 

     i'm not convinced that having a rear wheel fixed to one gear is 
going to make any difference in how smoothly someone pulls
  a chain. however, learning to ride rollers, especially at a light load 
(or perhaps to a lesser degree, a trainer) can make it obvious very 
quickly where the corners are in a 'square' pedal stroke and make it 
possible to learn how to smooth that out.

I guess it's a matter of "what turns your crank"(how appropriate!)
In my case a dislike the experience so much that I would much rather go for
a run. Last year I tried an indoor trainer throughout the winter but found
it to be a less than enjoyable experience. 
Cheers
Roy   



On 07/Feb/11 06:42, Roy Bird wrote:
> Because you haven't any choice. The bike smoothes it out for you if you
will
> let it. It is counterproductive to try to hammer, particularly up hills.
You
> learn to adapt your cadence to that which the bike requires at a given
> speed. I found The thing that requires most attention is to be prepared to
> lower or raise your cadence to suit the road conditions. Everyone has a
> natural cadence range say 70-80rpm and learning to extend that range to
say
> 30-120 requires attention to pedaling smoothness. Any attempt to fight it
is
> very counterproductive. If you plot out the pedal effort v time you will
see
> that on a fixie the resulting curve takes on a lazy wave form. On a bike
> with freewheel the plot takes the form of a series of sudden sharp peaks
and
> troughs in time with pedaling and coasting respectively.
> That's my experience anyway,
> Roy
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On
> Behalf Of ernest breakfield
> Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 2:26 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: smooth out your pedal stroke *?*
>
> i almost hesitate to question this publicly as we hear this alleged
> benefit of riding fixed touted so much, but as the rider of a fixed gear
> bike i've always been curious why people seem to think that riding fixed
> will "smooth" ones spin.
>
>       what i find is that riding fixed helps me work around the habit of
> being only able to make power primarily at my preferred cadence (drilled
> in from miles of riding as a tourist) and helps me learn how to make
> power at whatever cadence my speed might be forcing me to be at,... but
> since the motion of the bike (and thereby the pedals) *forces* a
> continued pedaling action i don't think it does nearly as much to help
> smooth out my spin as much as riding rollers (which also have the
> benefit of improving form, efficiency and handling skills).
>
>       don't get me wrong; i love riding my old fixed-gear Ibis around,
> but think the benefits of riding fixed are more related to helping build
> power at different cadences and different ranges of motion than in
> smoothing ones stroke out.
>       i think if you really want to "smooth" out your stroke, ride
> rollers!    ;-)
>
>
> cheers!
> e
>
>
> On 05/Feb/11 22:22, Kelly Iniguez wrote:
>> A friend of mine just ordered a fixie from this site - $395. for a custom
>> build. Sure sounds good.
>>
>> http://www.bigshotbikes.com/index.html
>>
>> Come spring (spring is coming, isn't it?) your pedal stroke will be as
>> smooth as silk.
>>
>> No relation, etc. just passing on a good deal.
>>
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