Re: [dinosaur] Would non-avian dinosaur survive through the whole Cenozoic?

Note, that a slow-down in speciation rates does not necessarily imply a 
drop in total diversity. Those are different things.

On 04/12/2019 21:27, Ben Creisler wrote:
> Ben Creisler
> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
>
> A reminder that there are sites in New Mexico that have not yet been 
> formally published that reportedly record the end of the dinosaurs 
> into the early Paleocene, and don't show a drop-off in dinosaurs.
>
>
> The death of dinosaurs and rise of mammals in the San Juan Basin of 
> New Mexico, USA
> by Stephen L. Brusatte, Thomas E. Williamson, Matthew T. Heizler, 
> Daniel J. Peppe, Ross Secord, Adam Davis, C. Will Fenley, Andrew 
> Flynn, Caitlin Leslie and Sarah L. Shelley
>
>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.com_watch-3Fv-3DlVBu3ff7FL4-26feature-3Dyoutu.be-26a&d=DwIDaQ&c=clK7kQUTWtAVEOVIgvi0NU5BOUHhpN0H8p7CSfnc_gI&r=JMxjjbIZXCWilersPs1bzRx-3mUwTiQUzlyzWk7v7k4&m=TMyDL85v7pbfDZGyl5jIQWQQ8fAmtTRl2O3Op1wFy2g&s=0H49Zu0Ear5avdEPZdgZRN9chVm7XToph9vHuQPSnzc&e=  
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.com_watch-3Fv-3DlVBu3ff7FL4-26feature-3Dyoutu.be-26a&d=DwMFaQ&c=clK7kQUTWtAVEOVIgvi0NU5BOUHhpN0H8p7CSfnc_gI&r=Ry_mO4IFaUmGof_Yl9MyZgecRCKHn5g4z1CYJgFW9SI&m=pdljsIJcth_exB4Aq2hA1VghjTeRPSYlvZbM5dw9ElE&s=bjtL06_j3jPHAmcqVOqzw99y4-CR7DP89KVhH8V010Q&e=>
>
> ==
>
> Also, I posted a video last week by one of the people involved in the 
> (controversial) Tanis site research that shows undescribed pterosaur 
> embryos, Triceratops skin, and dinosaur tracks, suggesting the 
> ecosystem was still fine up to the impact, and evolution likely was 
> not "stalled" for any particular reason.
>
> The end of the dinosaurs with Jan Smit, Dutch professor of 
> paleontology (video)
>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.com_watch-3Fv-3DDVoPwmwOMeg&d=DwIDaQ&c=clK7kQUTWtAVEOVIgvi0NU5BOUHhpN0H8p7CSfnc_gI&r=JMxjjbIZXCWilersPs1bzRx-3mUwTiQUzlyzWk7v7k4&m=TMyDL85v7pbfDZGyl5jIQWQQ8fAmtTRl2O3Op1wFy2g&s=xbVEthszwxsJYCL4fEYGcGzLECn29KRtOHUgHxRXn50&e=  
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.com_watch-3Fv-3DDVoPwmwOMeg&d=DwMFaQ&c=clK7kQUTWtAVEOVIgvi0NU5BOUHhpN0H8p7CSfnc_gI&r=Ry_mO4IFaUmGof_Yl9MyZgecRCKHn5g4z1CYJgFW9SI&m=pdljsIJcth_exB4Aq2hA1VghjTeRPSYlvZbM5dw9ElE&s=OdOamtWZlRYKkJBvdkllQ69YvhEIWefSlAbDB_62ULQ&e=>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 12:17 PM Thomas Richard Holtz <[email protected] 
> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>
>     "There was a slow-down in speciation rates prior to the K-Pg, see:
>
>
>     Sakamoto, M.; Benton, M. J. & Venditti, C.
>     Dinosaurs in decline tens of millions of years before their final
>     extinction
>     /Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, /*2016*/, 113/,
>     5036-5040
>     https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.pnas.org_content_early_2016_04_13_1521478113.abstract&d=DwIDaQ&c=clK7kQUTWtAVEOVIgvi0NU5BOUHhpN0H8p7CSfnc_gI&r=JMxjjbIZXCWilersPs1bzRx-3mUwTiQUzlyzWk7v7k4&m=TMyDL85v7pbfDZGyl5jIQWQQ8fAmtTRl2O3Op1wFy2g&s=OQkt0XWdqq-N_tnHRBakAi1K1MfMkhBrbfEBK_1-4nE&e= 
>     <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.pnas.org_content_early_2016_04_13_1521478113.abstract&d=DwMDaQ&c=clK7kQUTWtAVEOVIgvi0NU5BOUHhpN0H8p7CSfnc_gI&r=JMxjjbIZXCWilersPs1bzRx-3mUwTiQUzlyzWk7v7k4&m=5GiDV_YLHqBrZRbDC-66KwSOjfg-kH_05d2CfGkbOJw&s=XKy87RAH9LDLKNVcXp5Rz28pTiz-_WZ7uJps4MRTA4E&e=>"
>
>     Well, maybe. There are sampling issues that might be going on:
>     Chiarenza, A.A., Mannion, P.D., Lunt, D.J. /et al./ Ecological
>     niche modelling does not support climatically-driven dinosaur
>     diversity decline before the Cretaceous/Paleogene mass extinction.
>     /Nat Commun/10, 1091 (2019) doi:10.1038/s41467-019-08997-2
>
>     https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.nature.com_articles_s41467-2D019-2D08997-2D2&d=DwIDaQ&c=clK7kQUTWtAVEOVIgvi0NU5BOUHhpN0H8p7CSfnc_gI&r=JMxjjbIZXCWilersPs1bzRx-3mUwTiQUzlyzWk7v7k4&m=TMyDL85v7pbfDZGyl5jIQWQQ8fAmtTRl2O3Op1wFy2g&s=3x_28rLI8plWOwASPTjnUoKg00xSk2psPxfOPaE2iSQ&e= 
>     <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.nature.com_articles_s41467-2D019-2D08997-2D2&d=DwMFaQ&c=clK7kQUTWtAVEOVIgvi0NU5BOUHhpN0H8p7CSfnc_gI&r=JMxjjbIZXCWilersPs1bzRx-3mUwTiQUzlyzWk7v7k4&m=KGmSsdr77PivypnTe1zH2WGdaP9OEdACChESwR1p_cg&s=yB-z2x0_l4WcxLX1NY1S3wZZ6viyly55QSzuLC7bhSQ&e=>
>
>
>     On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 2:59 PM Mailing
>     <[email protected]
>     <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>
>         There was a slow-down in speciation rates prior to the K-Pg, see:
>
>         Sakamoto, M.; Benton, M. J. & Venditti, C.
>         Dinosaurs in decline tens of millions of years before their
>         final extinction
>         /Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, /*2016*/,
>         113/, 5036-5040
>         https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.pnas.org_content_early_2016_04_13_1521478113.abstract&d=DwIDaQ&c=clK7kQUTWtAVEOVIgvi0NU5BOUHhpN0H8p7CSfnc_gI&r=JMxjjbIZXCWilersPs1bzRx-3mUwTiQUzlyzWk7v7k4&m=TMyDL85v7pbfDZGyl5jIQWQQ8fAmtTRl2O3Op1wFy2g&s=OQkt0XWdqq-N_tnHRBakAi1K1MfMkhBrbfEBK_1-4nE&e= 
>         <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.pnas.org_content_early_2016_04_13_1521478113.abstract&d=DwMDaQ&c=clK7kQUTWtAVEOVIgvi0NU5BOUHhpN0H8p7CSfnc_gI&r=JMxjjbIZXCWilersPs1bzRx-3mUwTiQUzlyzWk7v7k4&m=5GiDV_YLHqBrZRbDC-66KwSOjfg-kH_05d2CfGkbOJw&s=XKy87RAH9LDLKNVcXp5Rz28pTiz-_WZ7uJps4MRTA4E&e=>
>
>         On 04/12/2019 19:16, David Marjanovic wrote:
>>         Gesendet: Mittwoch, 04. Dezember 2019 um 16:51 Uhr
>>         Von: "Poekilopleuron"<[email protected]>  <mailto:[email protected]>
>>
>>>         in his book "Dinosaurs Rediscovered", professor Mike Benton states that even if non-avian dinosaurs survived the K-Pg event, they would probably eventually perish some 50 or 40 million years ago (due to climatic changes and/or other perturbations). This is because of their limited ability to evolve new species in the last millions of years of the Cretaceous.
>>         There is no such thing as an inherent "ability to evolve new species" that doesn't depend on the environment, which changes.
>>
>>         The idea that few new species _did_ evolve in the last few million years of the Cretaceous has long been abandoned: it was based simply on the fact that the Campanian record of North America is better than the Maastrichtian record of North America.
>
>
>
>     -- 
>
>     Thomas R. Holtz, Jr.
>     Email: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>         Phone:
>     301-405-4084
>     Principal Lecturer, Vertebrate Paleontology
>
>     Office: Geology 4106, 8000 Regents Dr., College Park MD 20742
>
>     Dept. of Geology, University of Maryland
>     https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.geol.umd.edu_-7Etholtz_&d=DwIDaQ&c=clK7kQUTWtAVEOVIgvi0NU5BOUHhpN0H8p7CSfnc_gI&r=JMxjjbIZXCWilersPs1bzRx-3mUwTiQUzlyzWk7v7k4&m=TMyDL85v7pbfDZGyl5jIQWQQ8fAmtTRl2O3Op1wFy2g&s=cTIji_YUKLtRaM_ronAAj5bHtOcQcFOH3j2DRIFKWLM&e= 
>     <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.geol.umd.edu_-7Etholtz_&d=DwMFaQ&c=clK7kQUTWtAVEOVIgvi0NU5BOUHhpN0H8p7CSfnc_gI&r=JMxjjbIZXCWilersPs1bzRx-3mUwTiQUzlyzWk7v7k4&m=KGmSsdr77PivypnTe1zH2WGdaP9OEdACChESwR1p_cg&s=dZPKYx6VGmBK_p3Xs32nG4eiZApTdPGaaBbnn_LRftc&e=>
>
>     Phone: 301-405-6965
>     Fax: 301-314-9661
>
>     Faculty Director, Science & Global Change Program, College Park
>     Scholars
>
>     Office: Centreville 1216, 4243 Valley Dr., College Park MD 20742
>     https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.geol.umd.edu_sgc&d=DwIDaQ&c=clK7kQUTWtAVEOVIgvi0NU5BOUHhpN0H8p7CSfnc_gI&r=JMxjjbIZXCWilersPs1bzRx-3mUwTiQUzlyzWk7v7k4&m=TMyDL85v7pbfDZGyl5jIQWQQ8fAmtTRl2O3Op1wFy2g&s=vuinhIKhGiu8N0dL4MSGXGQudDPcUj__WUCwbwmOpKk&e= 
>     <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.geol.umd.edu_sgc&d=DwMFaQ&c=clK7kQUTWtAVEOVIgvi0NU5BOUHhpN0H8p7CSfnc_gI&r=JMxjjbIZXCWilersPs1bzRx-3mUwTiQUzlyzWk7v7k4&m=KGmSsdr77PivypnTe1zH2WGdaP9OEdACChESwR1p_cg&s=d05J22uneQ9C0HmN-djLWdqp-yAU3hgkBYy1G91dZMU&e=>
>     Fax: 301-314-9843
>
>     Mailing Address:        Thomas R. Holtz, Jr.
>                             Department of Geology
>                             Building 237, Room 1117
>
>     8000 Regents Drive
>     University of Maryland
>                             College Park, MD 20742-4211 USA
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