Re: Quine vs Montague, the deathmatch

At 07:41 AM 8/12/03 -0700, Jorge "Llambías" wrote:
>la lojbab cusku di'e
> > My own concept of "lo" (and I did invent the thing), was based on Loglan's
> > article (le'u?) which was used for universal claims about a set, and was
> > translated as "all those which really are members of the set".
>
>Are you thinking of "lea"?

Yes.

>"lea" is all the members of the set taken together as one whole,
>it is not for universal quantification. See
>http://www.loglan.org/Articles/sets-and-multiples.html
>"lea" is for "sets" as opposed to "multiples".
>
>In Lojban, the closest thing we have to "lea" is {piro loi}.

As it was understood in 1987, lea was ro lo, and not piro loi - our loi 
being TLI's lo, there was no tie between lea and lo.

> > After the intervening years, and
> > the flip-flop that occurred in late 1994, the CLL version of lo already
> > does not match my understanding, since I never bought into "lo" = "dapoi"
> > (but I wasn't the one writing CLL).
>
>The issue here is whether "lo" = "su'o lo". There is no argument
>so far against {su'o lo broda} being {su'o da poi broda}.

There was one, but I can't remember it without going back to November 94 
discussions.

> > I am more than a little intrigued by Cowan's claim that Lojban would not
> > have such current trouble if JCB had made a certain pronouncement on the
> > gadri 10 years earlier, but since JCB did not have "lo", I'm not sure that
> > has bearing on the matter.
>
>For a start we wouldn't have had the "set" gadri as mathematical sets
>(which JCB does not have) and we wouldn't have had so much conflation
>in our "mass" gadri.

The mathematicians took JCB's references to sets literally and they indeed 
wanted a gadri for that mathematical kind of set.

>Our {loi} took the name from JCB's {lo} but the
>meaning of JCB's {lea}.

I see little resemblance between lea and loi.

lojbab

-- 
lojbab [email protected]
Bob LeChevalier, Founder, The Logical Language Group
(Opinions are my own; I do not speak for the organization.)
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org