Re: The Nature of Man

On Sat, Nov 17, 2012 at 4:51 AM, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> On 16 Nov 2012, at 15:42, Rami Rustom wrote:
>
>> All evils are caused by insufficient knowledge. So all good is due to
>> sufficient knowledge. This is the principle of optimism. This means
>> that for every evil act, had the evildoer known that his act was evil,
>> and that there was a good option available to him, he would have done
>> good instead of evil. To explain this principle, I'll consider a few
>> hypothetical situations.
>>
>> The first situation involves a parent giving her baby a bottle of
>> formula. The baby takes a sip and puts the bottle down on his tray.
>> Then the parent tried to coax the baby with cute eating methods
>> involving airplane sounds. The baby kept turning his head. Then the
>> parent got anxious and tried to force it in his mouth thinking that
>> she's doing it in the best interest of her baby. The baby responded by
>> hitting the bottle, knocking it to the floor. Then the parent used
>> more force and succeeded in getting her baby to drink the formula.
>> Hours later, the baby died. The autopsy showed that the baby was
>> poisoned. The police learned that the formula was tainted -- not just
>> the formula in the baby's bottle, but also the whole batch of formula
>> shipped by the manufacturer.
>>
>> It’s important to consider who committed evil; the parent, the baby,
>> or both. The baby knew that the formula tasted really bad, so each
>> time that he rejected it, he was doing good. The parent knew that her
>> baby rejected the formula, so each time that she tried to coerce her
>> baby to drink it, she was committing evil.
>>
>> Now consider a situation identical in all respects but one -- the
>> formula wasn’t tainted, so the baby didn't die. Who acted immorally?
>> Can the answer be different? Logically, the answer cannot be
>> different. Morality does not depend on the actual results, but rather
>> only the expected results. To illustrate this point, consider whether
>> or not it is moral for a father of five young children to choose to
>> spend all their wealth on lottery tickets. Does the moral choice
>> depend on whether or not he wins? No, the moral choice depends on
>> whether or not he’s expected to win.
>>
>> As I’ve illustrated, every evil act is caused by insufficient
>> knowledge. In the case of the parent who forced her baby to drink the
>> bottle, had she known that coercing people is expected to lead to bad
>> results, and that persuasion doesn't have that fault, she would not
>> have resorted to coercion. In the case of the father who spent his
>> entire life savings on lottery tickets, had he known that his choice
>> is expected to lead to bad results, and that he had a better way to
>> spend the wealth, he would not have committed evil.
>>
>> At some point in the future, when every human being understands this
>> principle of optimism well, and has sufficient knowledge, all evils
>> will be eradicated.
>>
>>
>> Criticisms? Questions?
>
> I am not convinced. I think that human evil comes from jealousy,

Feeling jealous means that the person has a lack of knowledge. To be
jealous means to dislike the idea that somebody else has something
that I don't have and that I want to have. What could I possibly gain
by this sort of thinking? Nothing good. A better way to think about it
is to like the idea that I just learned that somebody else has
something that I don't have and I want it and I could emulate him to
learn it (or acquire it).


> addiction to power,

People who want that have a zero-sum worldview. This is a lack of knowledge.


> inferiority/superiority complexes,

If one believes he is inferior to another, he should emulate the
superior one to improve himself.


> the instinct of
> following leadership, etc.

There is no such instinct. Instincts are inborn. We are not born with
knowledge that explains what is a leader and what is a follower.


>
> I can agree that at some level all this is a product of ignorance, but
> I am still not sure that at such a level, the whole physical universe
> is a product of ignorance and delusion, so that to eradicate the
> delusion, and evil, would not be equivalent with the eradicating of
> the physical reality.
>
> A minimal but solid part of evil is build in in our survival instinct,

None of our (inborn) instincts are evil. They are ***all*** good. For
example, the inborn idea of crying when hungry or otherwise
uncomfortable.


> and is part of the game, if only to make sense of the good. That i
> something rather well explained by the taoist philosopher.
>
> I am not sure we can eradicate evil, as the relation between evil and
> good is like the extremities of an arrow, and if you cut the arrows
> you just get two new one, with still an evil part and a good part.

Why do you believe that good/evil is like an arrow?


> So
> I tend to not believe in an totally absolute good/evil distinction
> (even if I do believe a part of it is absolute), but I do believe
> strongly in harm reduction policy.

Are you saying that morality is relative?


>
> Evil has important relation with ignorance, but ignorance is
> unavoidable:

What do you mean by "ignorance is unavoidable"? Are you saying that
some problems are insoluble?


> we can only scratch the surface, and sometimes we can
> only have faith--- as some truth can be known but never been publicly
> justified, or they become lies.

Justification is a false concept. Could you rephrase your idea without
using that word?

Why do you care about **public** justification?


>
> I am not sure if a lot of evil is not coming from the attempts made by
> some humans to eradicate evil.

Yes, via coercion.


> Those humans very often believe to know
> some truth, and tend to impose it to others.

via coercion.


> That is evil: when others
> try to think at your place.

Right. Like most parents do to their children.


> The best we can hope is that people minds
> their own business, and do their work.

Yes. Freedom. Each one of us should have the freedom to pursue our own
happiness and we should not violate the freedom of others to pursue
their own happiness.


> Each of us is the only judge of
> what is good or evil for only oneself, as we might be very different
> from each others.

Are you saying that morality is relative?

-- Rami Rustom
http://ramirustom.blogspot.com


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