Re: Islam and punishment

On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 1:50 PM, Brett Hall <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 21/11/2012, at 5:18, "Rami Rustom" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Title: "Islam means "submission". Liberty means "you own you". Islam
>> and Liberty cannot coexist"
>>
>
> You are right but even more generally *dogma* and liberty cannot coexist.
>>
>> http://www.livestream.com/globalinfideltv?utm_source=lsplayer&utm_medium=ui-play&utm_campaign=click-bait&utm_content=globalinfideltv
>>
>> In the video, a Muslim said something to the effect that -- "in the
>> 1300 year history of Islam, only 60 hands have been cut off as a
>> punishment for certain sins, so.. its not such a big deal, its not a
>> big number."
>>
> Terrible. Both that the 60 is regarded as no big deal and that it is an atrocious lie.
>>
>> Islamic ideology believes that punishment should be used as a
>> deterrent of certain behaviors. Which behaviors? The sinful ones.
>> According to Islam, Allah chose the behaviors that are dubbed sins.
>> According to atheists, its a bunch of 7th century desert dwellers who
>> had traditions of what was considered immoral and they dubbed these
>> behaviors as sins.
>>
>> Whats interesting is that not all Islamic sins are immoral, and more
>> importantly not all immoral actions are sins.
>>
> Is it interesting? Maybe. It is something that has been known for centuries. And what you say in that last sentence works entirely without alteration if you substitute "Christian" as well.
>
> Islam is a dangerous ideology - because at the moment they, unlike Christianity, have many more people willing to suicide bomb or commit genocide or support the really really nasty violent stuff.  But in terms of the underlying morality and philosophy it is just as true to say of Christianity and (many) other religions that (if i could edit you second last paragraph there);
>
>> ("X") ideology believes that punishment should be used as a
>> deterrent of certain behaviors. Which behaviors? The sinful ones.
>> According to ("X ideology")", (Supernatural being) chose the behaviors that are dubbed sins.
>> According to atheists, its a bunch of 7th century desert dwellers (or even more ancient community) who
>> had traditions of what was considered immoral and they dubbed these
>> behaviors as sins.
>>
>
> It is worth focussing on Islam, and I support your project because their ideologies are particularly dangerous. Their punishments are also worse (death, removing hands, etc) than the other major religions currently endorse. But I don't like to give Christians a free pass just because the other guys are even worse. We can spread the light of criticism far and wide, all at once. Some places just need a heck more energy, I suppose, as they are trying desperately to drag civilisation back centuries in many respects. Islam is one of those particularly urgent problems. Many of them want a nuclear weapon. They want to use it against civilisation. With the spread of knowledge and resources of how to make one of these things, that day might be getting closer. And they want to use it because of what their dogma and prophesies say about the end times.

Iran is very close to having one.


>
> As an aside, perversely, some Christians of the "born again" type, especially in the USA, support Israel and want Israel to go to war *so that the Jewish people and nation are destroyed by the Islamic world*. Why? Because *their* eschatology explains that only then will Jesus Christ return like a superhero to usher in heaven for the saved. This makes some Christians as bad as some Muslims.
>
> See this guy for a pessimistic view of how that problem of some Christians supporting Israel only so it can be destroyed: http://www.tks.org/GaryNorth.htm
>
> This is a scarcely less measured:  http://www.cynet.com/jesus/Prophecy/Armageddon.htm
>
>  The point is that these are not entirely fringe beliefs. Like the beliefs that make Islam so dangerous. They need to be called out, criticised for what they are: patently false (for physical reasons) and terrible for moral and philosophical reasons generally. Of course, in the USA dangerous Christians are surrounded by rational people who will criticise such ideas. In the muslim world, if you are a dangerous muslim, you're probably surrounded by other equally dangerous muslims.

Well the main problem with the muslim world is that the people that
are good, don't say so. Because if they do, many muslims will want to
murder them -- and some do it.

-- Rami Rustom
http://ramirustom.blogspot.com