Re: defining laws in isolation or 'no other force acting'
<hibbsa-/[email protected]> 08 Jan 2014 09:50:17 -0800
| Newsgroups | gmane.science.physics.fabric-of-reality |
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| Message-ID | <[email protected]> |
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<p> <br>
<br>
---In [email protected], <david.deutsch@...> wrote:<br>
<br>
> On 6 Jan 2014, at 12:23, <hibbsa@... mailto:hibbsa@...> <hibbsa@... mailto:hibbsa@...> wrote:<br>
><br>
>> ---In [email protected] mailto:[email protected], <david.deutsch@...> wrote:<br>
>>> <br>
>>> In that sense, the laws of constructor theory *are* about isolated systems: the substrate plus constructor.<br>
>> <br>
>> The isolated system doubles as a better way to make clear there aren't other influences acting. Certainly there are applications where the boundary has independent value....say in how the major problems of mechanical engineering were solved (which were fundamental in nature)<br>
>> <br>
>> But, take Newton's laws of motion. Say, an object will remain at rest or continue the way its going at constant velocity, WHEN no other forces are acting. <br>
>> <br>
>> Does that say that when forces are acting, inertia and the other laws aren't also acting? No one would say that. Newton uses forces acting and that law in combination to get orbital behaviour, show conservation of momentum hence explain elliptical orbit and so on. <br>
> <br>
> Newton's first law specifies the behaviour of isolated systems.<br>
><br>
> Newton's second and third laws specify the behaviour of all systems, isolated or not. Indeed, the first law follows from the second, if one adopts Newton's conception of what it means for a force to 'act'.<br>
<br>
In a post that will arrive with this one, I suggested it was theoretically plausible to arbitrarily draw boundaries, say instantaneously. I left the implication as I saw it, implicit. Perhaps I should try to explain it instread. <br>
<br>
The relevance is that the choice of where to draw the boundary when defining a principle may involve considerations as to the clearest way to communicate something. In this tense, the drawing of a boundary is part of the same toolset that might also see an overall picture represented by more than one principle (in newton's case three). <br>
<br>
In another tense, the overall reach of a theory could be seen as represented by a boundary also. But this boundary is not typically part of the explicit statement of a theory. This is the one that we cannot choose in terms of what a theory says.<br>
<br>
My overall point, is that these two senses of a boundary might or might not be the same thing. Might or might not be represented by the boundary used to define the principle..even when that principle represents the theory as a whole. <br>
<br>
If they are the same...then a more general statement that does away with the boundary is non-trivial. But if they aren't, a more general statement that does away with the boundary, may or may not be non-trivial.<br>
<br>
For that reason, I would argue it is important to make the case for non-triviality as part of any generalization. It isn't clear to me that you do that in the paper which I brought down quotes from. Which doesn't mean what you did is non-trivial necessarily. <br>
<br>
But even if it could be interpreted that way...it might be worth clearing up, since - good or bad - science seems to have an unstated convention of criticizing triviality by voting with its feet. Which can be damaging if the goal is about introducing a new field (which among other thing is about attracting and retaining research interest) <br>
<br>
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padding-bottom: 10px;
}
#ygrp-msg p a {
font-family: Verdana;
}
#ygrp-msg p#attach-count span {
color: #1E66AE;
font-weight: 700;
}
#ygrp-reco #reco-head {
color: #ff7900;
font-weight: 700;
}
#ygrp-reco {
margin-bottom: 20px;
padding: 0px;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov li a {
font-size: 130%;
text-decoration: none;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov li {
font-size: 77%;
list-style-type: square;
padding: 6px 0;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov ul {
margin: 0;
padding: 0 0 0 8px;
}
#ygrp-text {
font-family: Georgia;
}
#ygrp-text p {
margin: 0 0 1em 0;
}
#ygrp-text tt {
font-size: 120%;
}
#ygrp-vital ul li:last-child {
border-right: none !important;
}
-->
</style>
</head>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEnd|**|-~-->
</html>
<!-- end group email -->
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