Re: Ada Lovelace: others & forerunners
"Bruno Marchal [email protected] [Fabric-of-Reality]" <[email protected]> Thu, 8 Oct 2015 17:33:29 +0200
| Newsgroups | gmane.science.physics.fabric-of-reality |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <[email protected]> |
--Apple-Mail-10-7258079 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On 24 Sep 2015, at 13:33, hibbsa-/[email protected] [Fabric-of-Reality] wrote: > >= regarding Ada Lovelace contributions to computing, David Deutsch > tweet= s: > > > > "ProfBrianCox @FryRsquared Fascinating. It convinced me that I w= as > wrong: Babbage never really got universality. Lovelace totally did."= > > > Hmm... I have a little french book from 1911 by Jacques Lafitte whi= ch gave me indirect evidence that Babbage did got the "universality" in= sight (for computations). he got it not from his machine(s), but from the= language he invented to describe the machine, and he realized that such = a language is as powerfull than his machine. I have evidence that Ada inven= ted programming and subroutine, but I am not sure she get the universalit= y I will take a look (when I have more time). > > my comment: > > > H= i DD, I watched it after seeing your tweet, and found it > fascinating al= so. I thought you might be interested in the following > documentary, whi= ch sheds light on a forerunner to Ada Lovelace. In > terms of universalit= y, that the possibility was being glimpsed (but > not realized) is eviden= t. > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DbLb54FCMt9o > > > > Another rece= nt documentary about Turing's Bletchley peer "Gordon > Welchman" whose co= ntribution to the Collossus and code breaking is > regarded as at least e= qual to Turing himself. Possibly greater. > > > Bletchley Park: Code-breaki= ng's Forgotten Genius > > > Bletchley Park: Code-breaking's Forgotten Geniu= s > A look at Gordon Welchman, a codebreaker crucial to the defeat of > t= he Nazis. > View on www.bbc.co.uk > Preview by Yahoo > > Of course, Leib= niz was conceptually close to. My candidate for the first real understand= ing of universality might be Emil Post, the founders, with Kleene of "rec= ursion theory". Only one certainty: G=C3=B6del did not got it, and neither= Church. "Church's thesis" is a label created by Kleene when he understoo= d that the class of partial recursive function is closed for the diagon= alization procedure, what G=C3=B6del called a "miracle". G=C3=B6del accep= ted Church's thesis only after his reading of Turing, who got it too of c= ourse. Bruno > > > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ --Apple-Mail-10-7258079 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/htm= l4/strict.dtd"> <html> <head> </head> =20 <body style=3D"background-color: #fff;"> <span style=3D"display:none"> </span> <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStartT|**|-~--> <div id=3D"ygrp-mlmsg" style=3D"position:relative;"> <div id=3D"ygrp-msg" style=3D"z-index: 1;"> <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEndT|**|-~--> <div id=3D"ygrp-text" > =20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20 <p><br><div><div>On 24 Sep 2015, at 13:33, <a href=3D"mailto:hibbsa@y= ahoo.com">hibbsa-/[email protected]</a> [Fabric-of-Reality] wrote:</div><br class=3D= "Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"> <div style=3D"ba= ckground-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"> <span> </span> <div id=3D"y= grp-text"><div><span><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><span lang=3D"EN-GB"></span></spa= n></span><br class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p>regarding Ada Love= lace contributions to computing, David Deutsch <a rel=3D"nofollow" target= =3D"_blank" href=3D"https://twitter.com/DavidDeutschOxf/status/644977353651= 785730"><font>tweets</font></a>: </p><p> <br></p><p>"<a rel=3D"nofollow"><u= ><font color=3D"#0000ff"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">ProfBrianCox</span></font></u= ></a><span lang=3D"EN-GB"> </span><a rel=3D"nofollow"><u><strike><font colo= r=3D"#0000ff"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">@</span></font></strike><font color=3D"#= 0000ff">FryRsquared</font></u></a><span lang=3D"EN-GB"> Fascinating. It con= vinced me that I was wrong: Babbage never really got universality. Lovelace= totally did."</span></p><p><br></p></div></div></blockquote></div><div><br= ></div><div>Hmm... I have a little french book from 1911 by Jacques Lafitte= which gave me indirect evidence that Babbage did got the "universality" in= sight (for computations). he got it not from his machine(s), but from the l= anguage he invented to describe the machine, and he realized that such a la= nguage is as powerfull than his machine.</div><div>I have evidence that Ada= invented programming and subroutine, but I am not sure she get the univers= ality I will take a look (when I have more time).</div><div><br></div><div>= <br></div><div><br></div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div style=3D"backgr= ound-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><div id=3D"ygrp-mlmsg"><div id=3D"ygrp-msg= "><div id=3D"ygrp-text"><p><br></p><p>my comment: </p><div> <br class=3D"we= bkit-block-placeholder"></div><p>Hi DD, I watched it after seeing your twee= t, and found it fascinating also. I thought you might be interested in the = following documentary, which sheds light on a forerunner to Ada Lovelace. I= n terms of universality, that the possibility was being glimpsed (but not r= ealized) is evident. </p><div> <br class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div= ><p><a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"https://www.youtube.com/w= atch?v=3DbLb54FCMt9o"><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><u><font color=3D"#0066cc">https= ://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DbLb54FCMt9o</font></u></span></a></p><div> <br= class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><div><br cla= ss=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p>Another recent documentary about T= uring's Bletchley peer "Gordon Welchman" whose contribution to the Collossu= s and code breaking is regarded as at least equal to Turing himself. Possib= ly greater. </p><div> <br class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p><a re= l=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episo= de/b069gxz7/bletchley-park-codebreakings-forgotten-genius">Bletchley Park: = Code-breaking's Forgotten Genius</a></p><div class=3D"link-enhancr-attachme= nt link-enhancr-element" id=3D"enhancrCard_1" style=3D"width:450px;"> <tabl= e class=3D"link-enhancr-element" style=3D"width:450px;height:170px;margin-t= op:5px;margin-bottom:5px;" cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0"> <tbody><tr = class=3D"link-enhancr-element"> <td class=3D"link-enhancr-element" style=3D= "height:1px;background-color:rgb(229, 229, 229);" colspan=3D"6"> <div class= =3D"link-enhancr-element" style=3D"height:1px;background-color:rgb(229, 229= , 229);"></div> </td> </tr> <tr class=3D"link-enhancr-element"> <td class= =3D"link-enhancr-element" style=3D"width:1px;background-color:rgb(229, 229,= 229);" rowspan=3D"2"> <div class=3D"link-enhancr-element" style=3D"width:1= px;background-color:rgb(229, 229, 229);"></div> </td> <td class=3D"link-en= hancr-element" style=3D"width:168px;height:168px;vertical-align:middle;back= ground-color:rgb(0, 0, 0);" rowspan=3D"2"> <div align=3D"center" class=3D"l= ink-enhancr-element" style=3D"width:168px;"> <a rel=3D"nofollow" class=3D"l= ink-enhancr-card-urlWrapper link-enhancr-element" style=3D"color:rgb(0, 0, = 0);text-decoration:none;" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://www.bbc.co.uk/ip= layer/episode/b069gxz7/bletchley-park-codebreakings-forgotten-genius"> <img= width=3D"168" height=3D"95" class=3D"link-enhancr-thumbnail-image link-enh= ancr-element" style=3D"margin:auto;" alt=3D"image" src=3D"http://ichef.bbci= .co.uk/images/ic/1200x675/p0319f9x.jpg"> </a> </div> </td> <td class=3D"lin= k-enhancr-element" style=3D"width:1px;background-color:rgb(229, 229, 229);"= rowspan=3D"2"> <div class=3D"link-enhancr-element" style=3D"width:1px;back= ground-color:rgb(229, 229, 229);"></div> </td> <td class=3D"link-enhancr-e= lement" style=3D"width:100%;vertical-align:middle;" colspan=3D"2"> <div cla= ss=3D"link-enhancr-text-part link-enhancr-element" style=3D"width:279px;hei= ght:130px;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);"> <div class=3D"link-enhancr= -element" style=3D"padding:7px 20px 0px 14px;"> <span class=3D"link-enhancr= -element icon icon-shrink link-enhancr-toggle"></span> <span class=3D"link-= enhancr-element icon icon-close link-enhancr-delete"></span> <a rel=3D"nofo= llow" class=3D"link-enhancr-card-urlWrapper link-enhancr-element" style=3D"= color:rgb(0, 0, 0);text-decoration:none;" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://= www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b069gxz7/bletchley-park-codebreakings-forgott= en-genius"> <span class=3D"link-enhancr-element link-enhancr-card-title" st= yle=3D"margin:0px 0px 4px;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);overflow:hidden;font-size:18px= ;font-weight:normal;max-height:43px;">Bletchley Park: Code-breaking's Forgo= tten Genius</span> </a> <div class=3D"link-enhancr-card-description link-e= nhancr-element" style=3D"color:rgb(153, 153, 153);overflow:hidden;font-size= :13px;max-height:81px;">A look at Gordon Welchman, a codebreaker crucial to= the defeat of the Nazis.</div> </div> </div> </td> <td class=3D"link-enha= ncr-element" style=3D"width:1px;background-color:rgb(229, 229, 229);" rowsp= an=3D"2"> <div class=3D"link-enhancr-element" style=3D"width:1px;background= -color:rgb(229, 229, 229);"></div> </td> </tr><tr> <td class=3D"link-enhanc= r-element" style=3D"width:100%;vertical-align:middle;"> <div class=3D"link-= enhancr-element" style=3D"padding:7px 20px 9px 15px;font-size:0pt;"> <a rel= =3D"nofollow" class=3D"link-enhancr-card-url link-enhancr-element" style=3D= "color:black;text-decoration:none;cursor:pointer;" target=3D"_blank" href= =3D"http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b069gxz7/bletchley-park-codebreaki= ngs-forgotten-genius"> <span class=3D"link-enhancr-element link-enhancr-vie= w-on" style=3D"overflow:hidden;max-height:13px;min-width:119px;max-width:17= 9px;"> <span class=3D"link-enhancr-element link-enhancr-mobile-no-resize" s= tyle=3D"color:rgb(153, 153, 153);font-size:9px;vertical-align:middle;"> Vie= w on <span style=3D"font-weight:bold;">www.bbc.co.uk</span> </span> </span>= </a> </div> </td> <td class=3D"link-enhancr-element" style=3D"width:100px= ;vertical-align:middle;"> <div class=3D"link-enhancr-element link-enhancr-p= review-wrapper" style=3D"padding:9px 20px 12px 0px;text-align:right;overflo= w:hidden;font-size:0pt;max-height:13px;min-width:80px;max-width:100px;"> <s= pan class=3D"link-enhancr-element link-enhancr-preview-by link-enhancr-mobi= le-no-resize" style=3D"color:rgb(153, 153, 153);font-size:9px;vertical-alig= n:middle;"> Preview by Yahoo </span> </div> </td> </tr> <tr class=3D"link-= enhancr-element"> <td class=3D"link-enhancr-element" style=3D"height:1px;ba= ckground-color:rgb(229, 229, 229);" colspan=3D"6"> <div class=3D"link-enhan= cr-element" style=3D"height:1px;background-color:rgb(229, 229, 229);"></div= > </td> </tr> </tbody></table> </div><div> <br class=3D"webkit-block-= placeholder"></div></span><div><br class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div= ></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><b= r></div><div>Of course, Leibniz was conceptually close to. My candidate for= the first real understanding of universality might be Emil Post, the found= ers, with Kleene of "recursion theory".</div><div><br></div><div>Only one c= ertainty: G=C3=B6del did not got it, and neither Church. "Church's thesis" = is a label created by Kleene when he understood that the class of partial r= ecursive function is closed for the diagonalization procedure, what G=C3=B6= del called a "miracle". G=C3=B6del accepted Church's thesis only after his = reading of Turing, who got it too of course.</div><div><br></div><div>Bruno= </div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><br><bloc= kquote type=3D"cite"><div style=3D"background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><= div id=3D"ygrp-mlmsg"><div id=3D"ygrp-msg"><div id=3D"ygrp-text"><div><br c= lass=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div><br class=3D"webkit-block-plac= eholder"></div> </div> </div> <!-- end group email --> </div= ></div></blockquote><br><div apple=3D"true"> <span class=3D"Apple-style-spa= n" style=3D"border-collapse: separate;color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family: Helv= etica;font-size: 12px;font-style: normal;font-variant: normal;font-weight: = normal;letter-spacing: normal;text-align: auto;text-indent: 0px;"><div><div= ><a href=3D"http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/">http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~mar= chal/</a></div><div><br class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div></div></sp= an><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"> </div><br></p> </div> =20=20=20=20=20 <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~--> <div style=3D"color: #fff; height: 0;">__._,_.___</div> =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20 =20 =20=20=20=20 <div style=3D"clear:both"> </div> <div id=3D"fromDMARC" style=3D"margin-top: 10px;"> <hr style=3D"height:2px ; border-width:0; color:#E3E3E3; background= -color:#E3E3E3;"> Posted by: Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> <hr style= =3D"height:2px ; border-width:0; color:#E3E3E3; background-color:#E3E3E3;"> </div> <div style=3D"clear:both"> </div> <table cellspacing=3D4px style=3D"margin-top: 10px; margin-bottom: 10px= ; color: #2D50FD;"> <tbody> <tr> <td style=3D"font-size: 12px; font-family: arial; font-weight: bo= ld; padding: 7px 5px 5px;" > <a style=3D"text-decoration: none; color: #2D50FD= " href=3D"https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Fabric-of-Reality/conversatio= ns/messages/25700;_ylc=3DX3oDMTJxa2hoa21xBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4ODg2MD= AEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDIwNTg1BG1zZ0lkAzI1NzAwBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDM= TQ0NDMzNDIzNg--?act=3Dreply&messageNum=3D25700">Reply via web post</a> </td> <td>•</td> <td style=3D"font-size: 12px; font-family: arial; padding: 7px 5p= x 5px;" > <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]?subject=3DRe%3A%20Ada%20Lov= elace%3A%20others%20%26%20forerunners" style=3D"text-decoration: none; colo= r: #2D50FD;"> Reply to sender </a> </td> <td>•</td> <td style=3D"font-size: 12px; font-family: arial; padding: 7px 5p= x 5px;"> <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]?subject=3DR= e%3A%20Ada%20Lovelace%3A%20others%20%26%20forerunners" style=3D"text-decora= tion: none; color: #2D50FD"> Reply to group </a> </td> <td>•</td> <td style=3D"font-size: 12px; font-family: arial; padding: 7px 5p= x 5px;" > <a href=3D"https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Fabric-of-Realit= y/conversations/newtopic;_ylc=3DX3oDMTJla20yNzIyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE= 4ODg2MDAEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDIwNTg1BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTQ0NDMzND= IzNg--" style=3D"text-decoration: none; color: #2D50FD">Start a New Topic</= a> </td> <td>•</td> <td style=3D"font-size: 12px; font-family: arial; padding: 7px 5p= x 5px;color: #2D50FD;" > <a href=3D"https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/= Fabric-of-Reality/conversations/topics/25699;_ylc=3DX3oDMTM2dWY5b2l1BF9TAzk= 3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4ODg2MDAEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDIwNTg1BG1zZ0lkAzI1NzAwBHNlYw= NmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTQ0NDMzNDIzNgR0cGNJZAMyNTY5OQ--" style=3D"text-d= ecoration: none; color: #2D50FD;">Messages in this topic</a> (2) </td> </tr> </tbody> </table> =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 <!------- Start Nav Bar ------> =20 <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --> <div id=3D"ygrp-vital" style=3D"background-color: #f2f2f2; font-family: Ver= dana; font-size: 10px; margin-bottom: 10px; padding: 10px;"> <span id=3D"vithd" style=3D"font-weight: bold; color: #333; text-transf= orm: uppercase; "><a href=3D"https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Fabric-of-= Reality/info;_ylc=3DX3oDMTJldDBncmEzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4ODg2MDAEZ3J= wc3BJZAMxNzA1MDIwNTg1BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTQ0NDMzNDIzNg--" styl= e=3D"text-decoration: none;">Visit Your Group</a></span> <ul style=3D"list-style-type: none; margin: 0; padding: 0; display: in= line;"> </ul> </div> <div id=3D"ft" style=3D"font-family: Arial; font-size: 11px; margin-top: 5p= x; padding: 0 2px 0 0; clear: both;"> <a href=3D"https://groups.yahoo.com/neo;_ylc=3DX3oDMTJkam1mMHNuBF9TAzk3ND= c2NTkwBGdycElkAzE4ODg2MDAEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDIwNTg1BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzd= GltZQMxNDQ0MzM0MjM2" style=3D"float: left;"><img src=3D"http://l.yimg.com/r= u/static/images/yg/img/email/new_logo/logo-groups-137x15.png" height=3D"15"= width=3D"137" alt=3D"Yahoo! 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