Re: ecovillage and sustainability

>i don't care myself to much about permaculture i don't think there is
>enough of the  shift in attitude that will be required to stop the process
>of denaturation we impose  to ourselves .
>I am way more inspired by the philosophy practiced by Masanobu Fukuoka where
>it is primary  to stop interfering with natural processes from the start or
>to be bound to restablish them once disturbed ( i refer here to the no
>cultivation , or no pruning principles ).

But Fukuoka was in no way just letting nature take its course-the
succession crops and practices are fitting but entirely manipulated by
humans.

My take on permaculture is that the person who coined the word and some
basic principles is still followed as the "last word" by many new
permaculturists while several of his disciples (such as Mike Pilarski) have
gone way beyond what he was thinking of to a much more wholistic vision and
practice. This broader, deeper view seeks to reestablish a garden of eden
situation whereever possible and especially where people are already
living. It seeks to re-embed humans in the nature they are rightly a part
of. Mature Permaculture isn't so much an agro-concept as a wholistic
ideology/culture.

>and "reestablish those processes "is a very different attitude and work than
>fixing the problems created by the primordial interferences
>

I'm not sure what you are getting at here. I have studied and integrated
the One Straw Revolution into our permaculture practices-but one often has
to introduce the desired vegetation to begin with, unless there happens to
be a sufficient wild mix already established (very rare).

Maybe you mean something like letting the wild prairie grasses reclaim the
western prairies along with the bison. Substantial programs are under way
to do those things, though it may take centuries.

humans could develop a sustainable culture among all our relations, we just
haven't seen the need until very recently, there was always another chunk
of land waiting for the plow and the dozer. now we are truly over the edge
with our asses hanging out...

Here at EarthSea the dense, pretty much mono-culture spruce forest was
cleared 300 years ago for pasture and apple trees. Dozens of introduced and
wild  grasses, broad-leaved plant, wild berries and roses duked it out
under the browsing of cattle, deer, rabbits, grouse, pheasants, mice and
song-birds for that 300 year period, establishing a much richer
biodiversity that had been in place for thousands of years. Then we came
along and introduced more diversity and have also hauled thousands of tons
of rich seaweed up to nourish

davidc



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