Re: Amnesia/ was ]Another Bush Crime against humanity and Gaia

on 1/29/05 6:08 AM, Globalcircle at [email protected] wrote:

> 
> Forest, you say most of us would not tolerate tribal male dominated
> politics as usual today, but that's exactly what most people put up with in
> our society - isn't it?

well, i agree on some level we have not advanced to far from those old more
traditional male dominant political structures....however there is a slow
but moving evolution from monarchy and dictatorship toward democracy....i
believe that translates into more huWoMan rights for all classes of people
tho a far cry from consensus....black civil rights and women's rights were
not too well established just a few years back.... so as limiting and male
dominant as democracy still is, it is still better imh-bs than any previous
form of government except perhaps those isolated cases in the tropics i
mentioned earlier that may have been more egalitarian....

> We are too spoiled by individualism and freedom?

yup.....imh-bs....

> How much freedom do you think the individual has as a cog in the economic
> machine today?  The mortgage, the school loan, the credit cards - all tie
> people in perpetual servitude to their masters. You will die in debt. Its
> easy to believe the myth of progress, to believe life in the past was
> nasty, brutal, and short - that before our modern enlightenment tribes of
> ignorant savages warred constantly the world over.

well, despite all the limitations in modern society you mention above i
still believe we have more freedom and independence....but it requires some
effort still and intelligent consideration of all the choices available to
maintain in the mainstream of things no doubt...but at least we have more
choices today such as intentional communities, living in the country simply
with less danger of wondering theives, etc......certainly we still have many
limitations with democracy, that is why i am promoting consensus.....i do
not feel we can heal the polluted earth and ourselves spiritually without
some evolution in political and social structure....

> Except it's just not
> accurate history.  Yes, life was that bad in England when the Industrial
> Revolution enclosed the commons and forced millions into diseased ghettoes
> for the profit of the few. But not the world over throughout history.  The
> textbook writers have a lot of vested interest in the myth of progress. And
> we have a great collective amnesia, which serves our masters well.

well, i agree there is much we have forgotten regarding his-story, and much
we have distorted....but me own intuition and observations of nature
indicate that the past was IN GENERAL THRUOUT THE WORLD was less free, more
difficult place to live....just me own bs on the subject....

> Not being able to go back to the past is a poor excuse for refusing to
> learn from the past.

i agree, i feel i have learned much from the past, even in me own life, not
to mention all those his-story books about all the various cultures of old
days....mostly what i am learning is i want to get more beyond male dominant
hierarchical  animal pecking order consciousness....i want to learn to
cooperate more and compete less...and imh-bs consensus is the main key to
such evolution, tho easier said than done for sure, because we have little
or no practice and there are few examples to show us, and if we make a stand
for consensus we are isolated from the vast majority of societies around the
world.....even our best friends will think we are a bit crazy and stop by
less and less....but some successful models of consensus are the quakers,
hewlit packard, NATO, UNITED NATIONS, the country of iceland, some
intentional communites...and i believe we can even evolve better and better
examples of consensus once we open up to that paradigm shift....

> As the historian said, those who will not learn from
> the past are condemned to repeat it.

i agree, and i am not into repeating most of that past political pecking
order stuff, despite some of the more traditional family and tribal bonding
it had....but i agree, let's not throw out the baby with the bath water,
there is much good we can take from the past, let's just refine the parts we
don't like, mainly imh-bs the political hierarchical structures....

> In our hubris we imagine that we have
> to invent workable, sustainable social structures, when they've been around
> for centuries in other places.

as near as i can tell from me own reading and intuition and conversations
with others the past is mostly in general a system of male dominant
hierarchies....as long as you tow the line and stay in your place in the
pecking order and don't rock the boat by questioning the alpha male or males
above you, you may slide thru a life in the past with some degree of
happiness, in some cases more than the average modern city dweller
even...but in general that would be at the expense of less huWoMan
rights.....if you are white, and male you might fair well, but that is about
it imh-bs....

> We can push the envelope all we want but we
> do not have the luxury of time to reinvent the wheel.

well, speaking of the time element, we may not have time to reinvent the
wheel and/or use that technology at all, rather we may need to tune into a
whole other method of travel like rocket or astral to make it in
time....hanging out with wheel travel system to get to the moon may not be
ideal either....the eco-destruction clock is ticking....

>   All that idealism
> won't help your survival if you don't join those who are doing what has to
> be done, right here, right now.  Spirituality is something you learn by
> doing, not by talking.

well, unless you have met me personally and/or looked at me website you may
not realize how serious i am about being a better example of sustainability
and evolving consensus political structure.....or how much i i am doing, or
have been doing all me life to one degree or another....we all have choices
to do the same, but due to old habits, most of us choose to ignore those
choices and instead grumble about what is....imh-bs the only realistic
solution to world problems, especially at this crucial time in his-story is
to get more cooperative, more consensus minded, more sustainable, to live
simply so that others may simply live....but as i said before more than
once, most of us are still habitually competing and consuming and thus
supporting big brother war mentality....as you say actions speak louder than
words....i am ready to take action on a consensus organized non-profit land
trust that teaches others how to live sustainably and seek land and/or
moneys to get access to homesteads for those once they have the knowledge
and tools in had....once we create more examples and show the masses how
happy, spiritual, and comfortable we can be, i suspect many others will
join....well, such a dreamer i know, but i have had enough taste of what i
am talking about to know it is real, so while waiting i am spreading the
good news..... aloha,

-- 
forest
[email protected]
http://www.lavazone2.com/forest/


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