Re: Add a new language [Valencian as a dialect of Catalan]

Antoni Bella Pérez via Docutils-develop <[email protected]> Mon, 31 Jul 2023 19:07:24 +0200
Newsgroups	gmane.text.docutils.devel
Organization	P&S Lliure
Message-ID	<2155044.irdbgypaU6@alba>
dilluns, 31 de juliol de 2023, a les 9:35:12 (CEST), Guenter Milde via 
Docutils-develop va escriure:
> Dear Toni, dear Docutils developers,
> 
> >> On Wed, 26 Jul 2023 Antoni Bella Pérez wrote:
> > 28 de juliol de 2023, engelbert gruber va escriure:
> On 2023-07-29, Antoni Bella Pérez wrote:
> >>>   I need help to decide what needs to be added to docutils so that
> >>> 
> >>> Valencian language be admitted as a language.
> >> 
> >> ca-va (ca_va for the module) ... looks good to me
> 
> I see a strong case for the `IETF language tag`_ "ca-valencia", with
> primary language subtag "ca" and the IETF-registered variant subtag
> "valencia". (I don't see how "ca-va" would fit in the `IETF language
> tag`_ syntax.)
> 
> .. _IETF language tag:
>     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IETF_language_tag
> 
> >   'va' isn't any country, as a variant it should be 'ca-va' (without the
> > 
> > underscore), which is the translation of 'ca@va'.
> 
> We have to distinguish the tag used in the `language_code setting`_
> (which is also written to the HTML document) and the Python `language module
> name`_.
> 
> According to `BCP 47`_,
> 
>   A language tag is composed from a sequence of one or more "subtags",
>   [...]
>   distinguished and separated from other subtags in a tag by a hyphen
>   ("-", [Unicode] U+002D).
> 
>   ...
> 
>   There are different types of subtag, each of which is distinguished by
>   length, position in the tag, and content [...]
> 
>   ...
> 
>   [...] language tags and their subtags [...] are to be treated as case
>   insensitive
> 
> The `docutils.languages.LanguageImporter` selects a matching language
> module.
> 
> "Docutils Internationalization" describes how to get a matching Python
> `language module name`_:
> 
> * For case insensitivity, we use only lowercase in the module name.
> * Subtags are separated from primary tags by underscores instead of
>   hyphens to conform to Python naming rules.
> 
> 
> For Valencian, the module name would become ``ca_valencia.py``.
> 
> .. _language_code setting:
>    https://docutils.sourceforge.io/docs/user/config.html#language-code
> .. _language module name:
>   
> https://docutils.sourceforge.io/docs/howto/i18n.html#language-module-names
> .. _BCP 47:
>     https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/bcp/bcp47.txt
> 
> >   Can docutils support 'ca-va'?
> 
> Only, if "ca-valencia" is generally unacceptable and there is a
> convincing case and consensus for using "ca-va" instead.
> 
> With Docutils 0.20, the current LanguageImporter code, both "ca-valencia"
> and "ca-va" can be used and automatically selects the Catalan language
> module(s) ``ca.py``. The "html5" writer uses the "language-code" setting
> unchanged, e.g.::
> 
>   <html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" xml:lang="ca-va" lang="ca-va">
> 
> >   Note you that if the country is added it would be 'ca-va_es' (it is only
> > 
> > presented in order to understand the subject) which is not desired by any
> > side.
> 
> Note, that with "ca-valencia", the canonical IETF tag including would
> become "ca-ES-valencia" as the subtag order is fixed and "variant" comes
> after "region".
> 
> Docutils would look for "ca_es_valencia", "ca_es.py", "ca_valencia.py",
> and "ca.py" language module(s) and use the first match.
> 
> >>> language be admitted as a language. As a note, I would like to state
> >>> 
> >>> that we reuse Catalan as much as possible:
> >>>   - The 'ca' translations in docutils too - no need to touch them
> 
> ...
> 
> >>>   With all this, how do you see it?
> 
> If there is no difference between Catalan and Valencian in the
> translations in "docutils/languages/ca.py" and
> "docutils/parsers/rst/languages/ca.py", using "ca-va" or "ca-valencia"
> should work out of the box since Docutils 0.10 (2012-12-16).
> 
> >>>   The reason is to be able to generate content with Sphinx.
> 
> I cannot tell about the Sphinx language features.
> 
> 
> Hope this helps,
> 
> Günter
> 

 Hi Günter and developers, thanks to all for your time

  Now, I prefer to use 'ca_valencia' in the docutils to follow the standard 
and, I will initiate the requirement within the Valencian community to make 
the change to two letters in the IETF.

  Can you enable it? 'Catalan (Valencian)' - 'ca_valencia'

  In Sphinx they have the requirement that the language be supported in the 
docutils, it won't be a problem.

  Remember: #203 Catalan updates https://sourceforge.net/p/docutils/patches/
203/ 

  Regards
  Toni
-- 
Dubta que les estrelles siguin foc.
Dubta que el Sol es mogui.
Dubta que la veritat sigui mentida.
Però no dubtis mai que t'estimo.
	- William Shakespeare

No se n'ha de posar massa
	- A grandmother on the TV show "Las recetas de Julie"