Re: multlingual titles in refdb

"O'Donnell, Dan" <[email protected]> Tue, 12 Jan 2010 08:13:46 -0700
Newsgroups gmane.text.refdb.general
Message-ID <[email protected]>
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Given how unsupported this is at the moment regardless of software, I =
wonder if a kluge might not be the way to go no matter what system you =
use, Christian? I.e. code the data with a wiki-style token that you =
could later use to extract a xml:lang attribute from. e.g. +fr+Les temps =
perdus; +en+Remembrance of things past

It might be much easier to build the language tokens into an existing =
bibliographic database than to build a bibliographic database from the =
ground up. How does MARC handle this?=20

Daniel Paul O'Donnell, PhD
Associate Professor,
Department of English,
University of Lethbridge
Lethbridge AB T1K 3M4
Canada

Chair, Text Encoding Initiative (http://www.tei-c.org/)
Director, Digital Medievalist Project =
(http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/)



-----Original Message-----
From: Christian Wittern [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tue 2010-01-12 5:14
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Refdb-users] multlingual titles in refdb
=20
Dear Markus,

Thanks for your answer.  What a pity, RefDB would otherwise quiet nicely =

fit the bill.  Unfortunately, I am not aware of other software that=20
could do this.  MODS maybe could be shoehorned to support this, but last =

time I checked it did not have xml:lang in the schema.  TEI could do=20
this, so I might have to go with a custom made XML database (eXist) or=20
some such:-(

All the best,

Christian

On 2010-01-12 19:15, Markus Hoenicka wrote:
> Christian Wittern<[email protected]>  was heard to say:
>
>   =20
>> Hi there,
>>
>> For a project here, I would like to adopt refdb for bibliographic =
data
>> management.  However, one of the requirements is to be able to have
>> multilingual titles, that is titles repeated for different languages. =
 As an
>> example, I might have a title of a Japanese paper in original script
>> (Kanji+Kana), Roman Transcription, translation into English, =
translation
>> into German etc.
>> I wonder how refdb could deal with this.  It appears that at the =
moment all
>> fields are language-agnostic, right?  Would it be possible to =
introduce
>> language at some level?
>>     =20
> Hi,
>
> RefDB cannot deal with this at the moment. Current practice in
> biomedical sciences is to provide the native title, followed by the
> translated title in square brackets. I'm well aware that this is not
> sufficient for the humanities.
>
> Adding language support to article and publication titles requires a
> couple of internal changes. Currently the title is part of the main
> reference entry, except for periodical titles which are already stored
> in a separate table. At this time RefDB only supports a fixed number
> of periodical synonyms. In order to support titles in different
> languages, we'd have to change this to a key-value kind of storage,
> with multiple keys indicating the type and language of a title. This
> is basically doable, but it will require quite a bit of coding time
> (which I'm particularly short of at the moment). Also, it will require
> extensions to the query language as you'd have to be able to query
> specific translations of a title to make full use of these changes,
> something like ":TX[en]:~whatever" to query the English version of a
> title. Adding language support to other fields (which ones would be
> required?) would follow the same pattern and would add quite a bit of
> complexity to the whole thing.
>
> To sum it up, RefDB could be modified to suit your needs, but this is
> nothing that I could do on a rainy sunday afternoon.
>
> regards,
> Markus
>
>
>
>
>
>   =20


--=20
  Christian Wittern
  Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University
  47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN


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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Given how unsupported this is at the moment regardless =
of software, I wonder if a kluge might not be the way to go no matter =
what system you use, Christian? I.e. code the data with a wiki-style =
token that you could later use to extract a xml:lang attribute from. =
e.g. +fr+Les temps perdus; +en+Remembrance of things past<BR>
<BR>
It might be much easier to build the language tokens into an existing =
bibliographic database than to build a bibliographic database from the =
ground up. How does MARC handle this?<BR>
<BR>
Daniel Paul O'Donnell, PhD<BR>
Associate Professor,<BR>
Department of English,<BR>
University of Lethbridge<BR>
Lethbridge AB T1K 3M4<BR>
Canada<BR>
<BR>
Chair, Text Encoding Initiative (<A =
HREF=3D"http://www.tei-c.org/">http://www.tei-c.org/</A>)<BR>
Director, Digital Medievalist Project (<A =
HREF=3D"http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/">http://www.digitalmedievalist=
.org/</A>)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
-----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Christian Wittern [<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:[email protected]">mailto:[email protected]</A>]<BR>
Sent: Tue 2010-01-12 5:14<BR>
To: [email protected]<BR>
Subject: Re: [Refdb-users] multlingual titles in refdb<BR>
<BR>
Dear Markus,<BR>
<BR>
Thanks for your answer.&nbsp; What a pity, RefDB would otherwise quiet =
nicely<BR>
fit the bill.&nbsp; Unfortunately, I am not aware of other software =
that<BR>
could do this.&nbsp; MODS maybe could be shoehorned to support this, but =
last<BR>
time I checked it did not have xml:lang in the schema.&nbsp; TEI could =
do<BR>
this, so I might have to go with a custom made XML database (eXist) =
or<BR>
some such:-(<BR>
<BR>
All the best,<BR>
<BR>
Christian<BR>
<BR>
On 2010-01-12 19:15, Markus Hoenicka wrote:<BR>
&gt; Christian Wittern&lt;[email protected]&gt;&nbsp; was heard to =
say:<BR>
&gt;<BR>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
&gt;&gt; Hi there,<BR>
&gt;&gt;<BR>
&gt;&gt; For a project here, I would like to adopt refdb for =
bibliographic data<BR>
&gt;&gt; management.&nbsp; However, one of the requirements is to be =
able to have<BR>
&gt;&gt; multilingual titles, that is titles repeated for different =
languages.&nbsp; As an<BR>
&gt;&gt; example, I might have a title of a Japanese paper in original =
script<BR>
&gt;&gt; (Kanji+Kana), Roman Transcription, translation into English, =
translation<BR>
&gt;&gt; into German etc.<BR>
&gt;&gt; I wonder how refdb could deal with this.&nbsp; It appears that =
at the moment all<BR>
&gt;&gt; fields are language-agnostic, right?&nbsp; Would it be possible =
to introduce<BR>
&gt;&gt; language at some level?<BR>
&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
&gt; Hi,<BR>
&gt;<BR>
&gt; RefDB cannot deal with this at the moment. Current practice in<BR>
&gt; biomedical sciences is to provide the native title, followed by =
the<BR>
&gt; translated title in square brackets. I'm well aware that this is =
not<BR>
&gt; sufficient for the humanities.<BR>
&gt;<BR>
&gt; Adding language support to article and publication titles requires =
a<BR>
&gt; couple of internal changes. Currently the title is part of the =
main<BR>
&gt; reference entry, except for periodical titles which are already =
stored<BR>
&gt; in a separate table. At this time RefDB only supports a fixed =
number<BR>
&gt; of periodical synonyms. In order to support titles in different<BR>
&gt; languages, we'd have to change this to a key-value kind of =
storage,<BR>
&gt; with multiple keys indicating the type and language of a title. =
This<BR>
&gt; is basically doable, but it will require quite a bit of coding =
time<BR>
&gt; (which I'm particularly short of at the moment). Also, it will =
require<BR>
&gt; extensions to the query language as you'd have to be able to =
query<BR>
&gt; specific translations of a title to make full use of these =
changes,<BR>
&gt; something like &quot;:TX[en]:~whatever&quot; to query the English =
version of a<BR>
&gt; title. Adding language support to other fields (which ones would =
be<BR>
&gt; required?) would follow the same pattern and would add quite a bit =
of<BR>
&gt; complexity to the whole thing.<BR>
&gt;<BR>
&gt; To sum it up, RefDB could be modified to suit your needs, but this =
is<BR>
&gt; nothing that I could do on a rainy sunday afternoon.<BR>
&gt;<BR>
&gt; regards,<BR>
&gt; Markus<BR>
&gt;<BR>
&gt;<BR>
&gt;<BR>
&gt;<BR>
&gt;<BR>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
--<BR>
&nbsp; Christian Wittern<BR>
&nbsp; Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University<BR>
&nbsp; 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, =
JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
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