Re: seg and interp

Piotr Banski <[email protected]> Tue, 2 May 2017 20:30:09 +0200
Newsgroups gmane.text.tei.general
Message-ID <[email protected]>
Dear Roberto,

The intended nature of <taxonomy> aside for a moment (because the result 
can also be achieved with feature structures, if text analysis wouldn't 
qualify for being encoded in a <taxonomy>... but then, what a sad device 
it would be :-) ), I think the primary solution depends on the assumed 
methodology.

If Mike's system presupposes a taxonomy that is already complete or that 
could at least potentially be made complete, then it seems that he 
should go for a <taxonomy> or an equivalent (it could be an external 
ontology, depending on his area and the stage of research into it). If, 
however, the approach is more free-style, essentially creating an 
open-ended taxonomy (or rather multiple taxonomies, as we've seen), then 
not having a central repository is an advantage, because then the 
current state can be harvested from, say, <interpGrp>s as you propose 
(or essentially by cyclically parsing the @ana attributes as the 
annotators move on).

(And whatever Mike's final decision is going to be, using capitalization 
inside attribute values can probably bite harder than using a separator 
such as a dot or a hyphen, unless the values, contrary to appearances, 
are expected to be atomic.)

Best regards,

   Piotr

On 04/29/17 09:55, Roberto Rosselli Del Turco wrote:
> Dear Piotr,
> I've been tempted to use <taxonomy> for a very similar purpose, but 
> wouldn't that be a sort of "tag abuse"? Since from what I understand 
> reading the relative section in the Guidelines this element should be 
> used for *bibliographical* taxonomies only, it is not a general 
> purpose classification tool.
>
> I would then suggest to use @ana with <seg>, as you do too, pointing 
> to a number of <interp>s in an <interpGrp>.
>
> All best,
>
> R
>
> Il 28.04.2017 21:24 Piotr Bański ha scritto:
>> Dear Mike,
>>
>> It looks like your system assumes a rich taxonomy of objects the
>> textual cues to which you choose to identify in your corpus. I would
>> suggest that you first explore the possibilities that <taxonomy> gives
>> you, as it will free you of the need to parse your attributes later
>> on, but it will also force you (or help you) to keep your (so far
>> merely implied) taxonomy consistent throughout.
>>
>> http://www.tei-c.org/release/doc/tei-p5-doc/en/html/ref-taxonomy.html
>>
>> Below is a fragment that uses <seg> alone -- which you may like,
>> because it's simpler for the encoders.
>>
>> Remarks:
>> 1. the markup below presupposes several hierarchically organised
>> <taxonomy> elements in the header.
>> 2. I am not sure what you use @function for, so I just keep it as-is
>> 3. It is a good idea to index at least the added <seg> elements. The
>> indices I added to them have nearly random content.
>> 4. You don't need @prev on the last one, but it may be useful. It's up
>> to you and your tools. I assumed a rule whereby if there is no @ana
>> attribute, it means that the <seg> is a continuation, and @prev points
>> to the previous one in the chain. But YMMV.
>> 5. Sorry about the line breaks, you may want to paste this fragment
>> into your test TEI document and reformat.
>>
>> Hope this helps,
>>
>>   Piotr
>>
>> <body>
>>          <div>
>>             <p>In the <seg xml:id="d-p3-s3" ana="#place.main">Country
>> of the Bhargas, on Mount
>>                   Śuśumāra in a fearsome forest of wild animals</seg>
>> with a <seg xml:id="d-p3-s4"
>>                   ana="#audience.Gen">great saṅgha of about 500 monks,
>> eminent śrāvaka-elders who
>>                   possessed clairvoyance</seg>.</p>
>>          </div>
>>          <div>
>>             <p><seg xml:id="d-p-s43" function="modul"
>> ana="#past.life.Who">if you wonder whether the
>>                   brahmin boy Bhadraśuddha was then at that time
>> someone else, or you are of two
>>                   minds about it, or doubtful, do not see him so. Why?
>> Because the bodhisattva
>>                   mahāsattva Maitreya himself was then at that time
>> the brahmin boy
>>                   Bhadraśuddha</seg></p>
>>             <p>
>>                <seg xml:id="d-p-s44" function="modul"
>> type="#qualities.Buddha" next="#d-p-s45">The
>>                   Tathāgata was handsome and charismatic, controlled
>> in his faculties and in his
>>                   mind. He had attained excellence in control and calm
>> abiding, and superiority in
>>                   control and calm abiding. He guarded his faculties,
>> elephant-like in control of
>>                   his passions, and was radiant, unsullied, and clear
>> like a lake.</seg></p>
>>
>>             <p><seg xml:id="d-p-s45" function="modul"
>> prev="#d-p-s44">His body was adorned with the
>>                   thirty-two marks of a great being, and with the
>> eighty minor marks, like the
>>                   blossoming flower of a royal sal tree, and towering
>> like Mount Meru, the king of
>>                   mountains. His face was as calm as the sphere of the
>> moon, and radiantly clear and
>>                   brilliant like the sphere of the sun. His body was
>> proportioned like a nyagrodha
>>                   tree, blazing with light and great splendor.</seg></p>
>>          </div>
>>       </body>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 28/04/17 09:41, Mike Engle wrote:
>>> Hi all
>>>
>>> I'm involved in a project in which we're marking up a large body of
>>> literature and we want to mark various passages in the texts as
>>> significant, in essence labeling them as "this" or "that".  We took a
>>> look through the TEI Guidelines and decided to use <seg> and 
>>> <interp> to
>>> mark the various passages with different attributes to specifiy what
>>> type of passage it is.
>>>
>>> For example, with <interp>:
>>>
>>> In the <interptype="placeMain">Country of the Bhargas, on Mount 
>>> Śuśumāra
>>> in a fearsome forest of wild animals</interp> with a <interp
>>> type="audienceGen">great saṅgha of about 500 monks, eminent
>>> śrāvaka-elders who possessed clairvoyance</interp>.
>>>
>>>
>>> And with <seg>:
>>>
>>> <segfunction="modul"type="pastLifeWho">if you wonder whether the 
>>> brahmin boy
>>>                         Bhadraśuddha was then at that time someone 
>>> else,
>>> or you are of two minds
>>>                         about it, or doubtful, do not see him so. Why?
>>> Because the bodhisattva
>>>                         mahāsattva Maitreya himself was then at that
>>> time the brahmin boy
>>>                         Bhadraśuddha</seg>
>>>
>>>
>>> Two questions:
>>>
>>> 1)  Since this is going to be a very long term and labor extensive
>>> project, I wanted to check and see if the community in general felt 
>>> this
>>> was a reasonable way to mark these passages and also if there are any
>>> suggestions for other ways to do this which might work better.  Can
>>> anyone suggest any other elements that might be useful for this kind of
>>> thing?
>>>
>>> 2)  We have a problem of going across elements (breaking the nesting so
>>> to speak).  For instance, a passage might start in the middle of one
>>> paragraph and finish halfway through another paragraph, and when we 
>>> mark
>>> it the tag begins in one paragraph and closes in the next. The schema
>>> doesn't like this one bit, and I'm wondering what is the best way to
>>> handle this.  For example:
>>>
>>>
>>> <p><seg function="modul" type="qualitiesBuddha">The Tathāgata was
>>> handsome and charismatic,
>>>                         controlled in his faculties and in his mind. He
>>> had attained excellence in
>>>                         control and calm abiding, and superiority in
>>> control and calm abiding. He
>>>                         guarded his faculties, elephant-like in control
>>> of his passions, and
>>>                         was radiant, unsullied, and clear like a 
>>> lake.</p>
>>>
>>> <p>His body was adorned with the
>>>                         thirty-two marks of a great being, and with the
>>> eighty minor marks, like the
>>>                         blossoming flower of a royal sal tree, and
>>> towering like Mount Meru, the
>>>                         king of mountains. His face was as calm as the
>>> sphere of the moon, and
>>>                         radiantly clear and brilliant like the 
>>> sphere of
>>>                         the sun. His body was proportioned like a
>>> nyagrodha tree, blazing with light
>>>                         and great splendor.</seg></p>
>>>
>>>
>>> Any help is greatly appreciate.  Forgive the formatting
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>