Re: @xml:base with @rendition (and maybe other pointers)

"John P. McCaskey" <[email protected]> Wed, 3 May 2017 08:26:18 -0400
Newsgroups gmane.text.tei.general
Message-ID <[email protected]>
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Another reason to design for internal renditions only:

Renditions are supposed to indicate how a source document is formatted,=20
not how a TEI document should be presented.

Someone will say, =E2=80=9CI want an external renditions file so I can ea=
sily=20
change the formatting of, say, <head> elements on all my TEI files.=E2=80=
=9C But=20
that is to misuse <rendition>. Renditions are supposed to be=20
document-specific. There is an argument that external renditions should=20
be positively disallowed.

Corpus-wide formatting changes should be done with stylesheets, not=20
external rendition pointers.

--


On 5/3/2017 8:08 AM, John P. McCaskey wrote:
>
> I started this because of a multi-purpose stylesheet I have.
>
> I think I=E2=80=99ll keep the bug and promote it as a feature:
>
> =E2=80=9CExternal renditions are not supported; renditions ignore xml:b=
ase. So=20
> go ahead and encode with local file names throughout your document.=20
> Later when you deploy, use xml:base to set a root directory for those=20
> files and your renditions won=E2=80=99t get messed up.=E2=80=9D
>
> -- John
>
>
> On 5/2/2017 5:39 PM, Hugh Cayless wrote:
>>
>> On May 2, 2017, at 17:07, Syd Bauman <[email protected]=20
>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hugh --
>>>
>>> Where does it say the interpretation of a fragment ID *with respect
>>> to its @xml:base* depends on the media type?
>>
>> I don't believe it does. I was looking at things like=20
>> https://www.w3.org/TR/fragid-best-practices/, which says that the=20
>> behaviors with regard to fragment references depend on the media=20
>> type. To be sure, I'm not certain we'd actually be free to define a=20
>> custom behavior for fragment ids because we have to follow the=20
>> behaviors defined for XML. They're thinking particularly of cases=20
>> where you might not have the whole file.
>>
>> I can't see how we could insist #word-type URIs would result in the=20
>> retrieval of a different document. As Michael says, the assumption is=20
>> that you've already got the referenced document, even if the base=20
>> points to a different one.
>>>
>>> John --
>>>
>>> Yes, I think a base URI is specific to an element (which might be the
>>> whole document, might not).
>>>
>>> Yes, I think the quoted passage is saying that a fragment ID points
>>> to the same document as the base URI in effect.
>>>
>>> No, I'm not at all sure the paragraph in the xml:base spec does say
>>> that fragment IDs should honor the xml:base. But then again, I'm not
>>> at all sure it *doesn't* say that.
>>
>> I can't read RFC
>>>
>>>> In XML, isn=E2=80=99t =E2=80=9Cbase URI=E2=80=9C something specific =
to an element, not to
>>>> the document?
>>>>
>>>> If so, the passage quoted is not saying that fragment IDs can point
>>>> only to the document they are in, just that a fragment ID points to
>>>> the same document as the base URI in effect for the containing XML
>>>> element.
>>>>
>>>> Doesn=E2=80=99t this paragraph <https://www.w3.org/TR/xmlbase/#match=
ing>
>>>> say fragment IDs should honor the complete xml:base value in effect
>>>> for the attribute=E2=80=99s element?
>


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    <p><font size=3D"-1">Another reason to design for internal renditions
        only:<br>
      </font></p>
    <p><font size=3D"-1">Renditions are supposed to indicate how a source
        document is formatted, not how a TEI document should be
        presented. <br>
      </font></p>
    <p><font size=3D"-1">Someone will say, =E2=80=9CI want an external re=
nditions
        file so I can easily change the formatting of, say, &lt;head&gt;
        elements on all my TEI files.=E2=80=9C But that is to misuse
        &lt;rendition&gt;. Renditions are supposed to be
        document-specific. There is an argument that external renditions
        should be positively disallowed.</font></p>
    <p><font size=3D"-1">Corpus-wide formatting changes should be done
        with stylesheets, not external rendition pointers.</font></p>
    <p><font size=3D"-1">--</font><br>
    </p>
    <br>
    <div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix"><font size=3D"-2">On 5/3/2017 8:08 AM,
        John P. McCaskey wrote:</font><br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
      cite=3D"mid:[email protected]"
      type=3D"cite">
      <meta content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8" http-equiv=3D"Content-=
Type">
      <p><font size=3D"-1">I started this because of a multi-purpose
          stylesheet I have.</font></p>
      <p><font size=3D"-1">I think I=E2=80=99ll keep the bug and promote =
it as a
          feature:</font></p>
      <p><font size=3D"-1">=E2=80=9CExternal renditions are not supported=
;
          renditions ignore <a moz-do-not-send=3D"true"
            class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"xml:base">xml:base</a=
>.
          So go ahead and encode with local file names throughout your
          document. Later when you deploy, use <a
            moz-do-not-send=3D"true" class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext"
            href=3D"xml:base">xml:base</a> to set a root directory for
          those files and your renditions won=E2=80=99t get messed up.=E2=
=80=9D</font></p>
      <p><font size=3D"-1">-- John<br>
        </font></p>
      <font size=3D"-2"><br>
      </font>
      <div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix"><font size=3D"-2">On 5/2/2017 5:39 P=
M,
          Hugh Cayless wrote:</font><br>
      </div>
      <blockquote
        cite=3D"mid:[email protected]"
        type=3D"cite">
        <meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html;
          charset=3Dutf-8">
        <div><span></span></div>
        <div>
          <meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html;
            charset=3Dutf-8">
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>On May 2, 2017, at 17:07, Syd Bauman &lt;<a
              moz-do-not-send=3D"true"
              href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">s.bauman@NORTHEAS=
TERN.EDU</a>&gt;
            wrote:<br>
            <br>
          </div>
          <blockquote type=3D"cite">
            <div><span>Hugh --</span><br>
              <span></span><br>
              <span>Where does it say the interpretation of a fragment
                ID *with respect</span><br>
              <span>to its @<a moz-do-not-send=3D"true"
                  class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"xml:base*">xml:=
base*</a>
                depends on the media type?</span><br>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          I don't believe it does. I was looking at things like=C2=A0<a
            moz-do-not-send=3D"true"
            href=3D"https://www.w3.org/TR/fragid-best-practices/">https:/=
/www.w3.org/TR/fragid-best-practices/</a>,
          which says that the behaviors with regard to fragment
          references depend on the media type. To be sure, I'm not
          certain we'd actually be free to define a custom behavior for
          fragment ids because we have to follow the behaviors defined
          for XML. They're thinking particularly of cases where you
          might not have the whole file.=C2=A0</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>I can't see how we could insist #word-type URIs would
          result in the retrieval of a different document. As Michael
          says, the assumption is that you've already got the referenced
          document, even if the base points to a different one.=C2=A0<br>
          <blockquote type=3D"cite">
            <div><span></span><br>
              <span>John --</span><br>
              <span></span><br>
              <span>Yes, I think a base URI is specific to an element
                (which might be the</span><br>
              <span>whole document, might not).</span><br>
              <span></span><br>
              <span>Yes, I think the quoted passage is saying that a
                fragment ID points</span><br>
              <span>to the same document as the base URI in effect.</span=
><br>
              <span></span><br>
              <span>No, I'm not at all sure the paragraph in the <a
                  moz-do-not-send=3D"true" class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext=
"
                  href=3D"xml:base">xml:base</a> spec does say</span><br>
              <span>that fragment IDs should honor the <a
                  moz-do-not-send=3D"true" class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext=
"
                  href=3D"xml:base">xml:base</a>. But then again, I'm not=
</span><br>
              <span>at all sure it *doesn't* say that.</span><br>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          I can't read RFC=C2=A0<br>
          <blockquote type=3D"cite">
            <div><span></span><br>
              <blockquote type=3D"cite"><span>In XML, isn=E2=80=99t =E2=80=
=9Cbase URI=E2=80=9C
                  something specific to an element, not to</span><br>
              </blockquote>
              <blockquote type=3D"cite"><span>the document?</span><br>
              </blockquote>
              <blockquote type=3D"cite"><span></span><br>
              </blockquote>
              <blockquote type=3D"cite"><span>If so, the passage quoted i=
s
                  not saying that fragment IDs can point</span><br>
              </blockquote>
              <blockquote type=3D"cite"><span>only to the document they
                  are in, just that a fragment ID points to</span><br>
              </blockquote>
              <blockquote type=3D"cite"><span>the same document as the
                  base URI in effect for the containing XML</span><br>
              </blockquote>
              <blockquote type=3D"cite"><span>element.</span><br>
              </blockquote>
              <blockquote type=3D"cite"><span></span><br>
              </blockquote>
              <blockquote type=3D"cite"><span>Doesn=E2=80=99t this paragr=
aph &lt;<a
                    moz-do-not-send=3D"true"
                    href=3D"https://www.w3.org/TR/xmlbase/#matching">http=
s://www.w3.org/TR/xmlbase/#matching</a>&gt;</span><br>
              </blockquote>
              <blockquote type=3D"cite"><span>say fragment IDs should
                  honor the complete <a moz-do-not-send=3D"true"
                    class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"xml:base">xml=
:base</a>
                  value in effect</span><br>
              </blockquote>
              <blockquote type=3D"cite"><span>for the attribute=E2=80=99s=
 element?</span><br>
              </blockquote>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
      </blockquote>
      <br>
    </blockquote>
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