Re: @xml:base with @rendition (and maybe other pointers)
Hugh Cayless <[email protected]> Wed, 3 May 2017 18:20:45 -0400
| Newsgroups | gmane.text.tei.general |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <CAObhq+ce0XdEgfuUGGf=vMHj4JtPtAGwoe9BgL_Hxqc_Hz1vFg@mail.gmail.com> |
--94eb2c083c7a57e1ab054ea61123 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable No. This clarifies the expected behavior when (e.g.) you have @xml:base=3D"#frag". It says nothing whatever about <p rendition=3D"#foo">.= I don't think these specifications interact in the way you're positing. Quite the opposite. On Wed, May 3, 2017 at 6:13 PM, John P. McCaskey <[email protected]> wrote: > The special behavior of same-document references in RFC 3986 is disavowed > by W3C: > > 4.4 Interpretation of same-document references > > RFC 3986 defines certain relative URI references, in particular the empty > string and those of the form #fragment, as same-document references. > Dereferencing of same-document references is handled specially. However, > their use as the value of an *xml:base attribute does not* *involve *dere= ferencing, > and XML Base processors should resolve them in the usual way. In > particular, xml:base=3D"" does not reset the base URI to that of the > containing document. > > Note: > > Some existing processors do treat these xml:base values as resetting the > base URI to that of the containing document, so the use of such values is > strongly discouraged. > > This says: > > RFC 3986 defines special =E2=80=9Cdereferencing=E2=80=9D of empty strings= and #fragments. > But over here in XML-land, we don=E2=80=99t do =E2=80=9Cdereferencing.=E2= =80=9C That=E2=80=99s not a word > we use here. Ignore that stuff about same-document references. Just resol= ve > empty strings and #fragments as specified in the W3C Recommendation above= . > And those of you who did carry that stuff over from 3986 to XML-land, sha= me > on you. You messed things up for the rest of us. > > > A note has: > > 5. The meanings of xml:base=3D"" and xml:base=3D"#frag" have been clarifi= ed; > > This says: > > In this second version of this recommendation, we added paragraph 4.4 > specifically to get you 3986 people to stop polluting our W3C with your > special cases. Stop doing that. > > No? > > -- John > > > > > > > On 5/3/2017 5:09 PM, Hugh Cayless wrote: > > That's exactly what it does. It's just that the behavior of same-document > references is prescribed in such a way that they end up resolving to the > current document regardless of the value of the @xml:base. > > Put another way, @xml:base has an influence on what the client > application will retrieve when it dereferences a URI and retrieves the > referenced document, but in the case of same-document references no such > retrieval is expected to occur=E2=80=94it's assumed the client already ha= s the > document. > > On Wed, May 3, 2017 at 4:29 PM, John P. McCaskey <[email protected]= m > > wrote: > >> Oh. I thought it obvious they all resolved the same. >> >> I think the same about this one. You think otherwise? >> >> <div xml:base=3D"http://www.myteiproject.com/" <http://www.myteiproject.= com/> >> <div xml:base=3D"images/"> >> <div> >> <graphic url=3D"logo.jpg"> >> </div> >> <div xml:base=3D"http://www.dictionary.com/words/"> >> <p xml:base=3D"a.html"> >> <ref target=3D"#apple">apple</ref> >> </p> >> </div> >> </div> >> </div> >> >> I didn=E2=80=99t think xml:base had any necessary relation to the curren= t >> document. I thought in XML (not HTML), it just sets a path for URIs belo= w >> it. >> >> -- >> On 5/3/2017 3:42 PM, Hugh Cayless wrote: >> >> Well, we don't know about the third one, except that it points to >> whatever element *in the same document* has the @xml:id "apple". When an >> application attempts to dereference it, it should make the URI in @ref >> absolute and check it against the base (http://www.dictionary.com/wor >> ds/a.html), discover they are identical, decide it doesn't need to fetch >> anything, and go looking in the current document for the element with th= e >> id "apple". >> On Wed, May 3, 2017 at 3:27 PM, John P. McCaskey < >> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Are people proposing that these targets do not all resolve >>> to the same http://www.dictionary.com/words/a.html#apple? >>> <div xml:base=3D"http://www.dictionary.com/" <http://www.dictionary.com= />> >>> <p xml:base=3D"words/"> >>> <ref target=3D"a.html#apple">apple</ref> >>> </p> >>> </div> >>> >>> <div xml:base=3D"http://www.dictionary.com/words/" <http://www.dictiona= ry.com/words/>> >>> <p xml:base=3D"a.html"> >>> <ref target=3D"#apple">apple</ref> >>> </p> >>> </div> >>> >>> <div xml:base=3D"http://www.dictionary.com/words/a.html" <http://www.di= ctionary.com/words/a.html>> >>> <p> >>> <ref target=3D"#apple">apple</ref> >>> </p> >>> </div> >>> >>> <div xml:base=3D"http://www.dictionary.com/" <http://www.dictionary.com= />> >>> <p> >>> <ref target=3D"words/a.html#apple">apple</ref> >>> </p> >>> </div> >>> -- >>> >>> --94eb2c083c7a57e1ab054ea61123 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr">No. This clarifies the expected behavior when (e.g.) you h= ave @xml:base=3D"#frag". It says nothing whatever about <p ren= dition=3D"#foo">. I don't think these specifications inter= act in the way you're positing. Quite the opposite.</div><div class=3D"= gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, May 3, 2017 at 6:13 PM,= John P. McCaskey <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:mailbox@johnmccas= key.com" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>></span> wrote:<b= r><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:= 1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> =20 =20 =20 <div bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF" text=3D"#000000"> <p>The special behavior of same-document references in RFC 3986 is disavowed by W3C: <br> </p><span class=3D""> <blockquote> <p><font size=3D"-2">4.4 Interpretation of same-document references<b= r> <br> RFC 3986 defines certain relative URI references, in particular the empty string and those of the form #fragment, as same-document references. Dereferencing of same-document references is handled specially. However, their use as the value of an <b><a class=3D"m_-3680229684002831364moz-txt-link-fre= etext">xml:base</a> attribute does not</b> <b>involve </b>dereferencing, and XML Base processors should resolve them in the usual way. In particular, <a class=3D"m_-3680229684002831364moz-txt-link-fre= etext">xml:base=3D</a>"" does not reset the base URI to that of the containing document.<br> <br> Note:<br> <br> Some existing processors do treat these <a class=3D"m_-3680229684= 002831364moz-txt-link-freetext">xml:base</a> values as resetting the base URI to that of the containing document, so the use of such values is strongly discouraged.</font><br> </p> </blockquote></span> This says:<br> <blockquote>RFC 3986 defines special =E2=80=9Cdereferencing=E2=80=9D of= empty strings and #fragments. But over here in XML-land, we don=E2=80=99t d= o =E2=80=9Cdereferencing.=E2=80=9C That=E2=80=99s not a word we use her= e. Ignore that stuff about same-document references. Just resolve empty strings and #fragments as specified in the W3C Recommendation above. And those of you who did carry that stuff over from 3986 to XML-land, shame on you. You messed things up for the rest of us. <br> </blockquote> <br> A note has:<br> <blockquote><font size=3D"-2">5. The meanings of <a class=3D"m_-3680229= 684002831364moz-txt-link-freetext">xml:base=3D</a>"" and <a class=3D"m_-3680229684002831364moz-txt-link-freetext">xml:base= =3D</a>"#frag" have been clarified;</font><br> </blockquote> This says: <br> <blockquote>In this second version of this recommendation, we added paragraph 4.4 specifically to get you 3986 people to stop polluting our W3C with your special cases. Stop doing that.<br> </blockquote> No?<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br> <br> -- John</font></span><div><div class=3D"h5"><br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <div class=3D"m_-3680229684002831364moz-cite-prefix">On 5/3/2017 5:09 P= M, Hugh Cayless wrote:<br> </div> <blockquote type=3D"cite"> <div dir=3D"ltr">That's exactly what it does. It's just that = the behavior of same-document references is prescribed in such a way that they end up resolving to the current document regardless of the value of the @<a class=3D"m_-3680229684002831364moz-txt-link-fr= eetext">xml:base</a>. <div><br> </div> <div>Put another way, @<a class=3D"m_-3680229684002831364moz-txt-li= nk-freetext">xml:base</a> has an influence on what the client application will retrieve when it dereferences a URI and retrieves the referenced document, but in the case of same-document references no such retrieval is expected to occur=E2=80=94it's assumed the client already has the documen= t.</div> </div> <div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br> <div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, May 3, 2017 at 4:29 PM, John P. McCaskey <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:mailbox@johnmcca= skey.com" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bord= er-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> <div bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF" text=3D"#000000"> <p><font size=3D"-1">Oh. I thought it obvious they all resolved the same. <br> </font></p> <p><font size=3D"-1">I think the same about this one. You think otherwise?<br> </font></p> <pre><font size=3D"-1"><div <a class=3D"m_-368022968400283= 1364m_-7516606003097729134moz-txt-link-freetext">xml:base=3D</a><a class=3D= "m_-3680229684002831364m_-7516606003097729134moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D= "http://www.myteiproject.com/" target=3D"_blank">"http://www.myteiproj= <wbr>ect.com/"</a> <div <a class=3D"m_-3680229684002831364m_-7516606003097729134moz-txt-l= ink-freetext">xml:base=3D</a>"images/"> <div> <graphic url=3D"logo.jpg"> </div> <div <a class=3D"m_-3680229684002831364m_-7516606003097729134m_-1417= 418399130310658moz-txt-link-freetext">xml:base=3D</a><span class=3D"m_-3680= 229684002831364m_-7516606003097729134m_-1417418399130310658moz-txt-link-rfc= 2396E">"<a class=3D"m_-3680229684002831364m_-7516606003097729134moz-tx= t-link-freetext" href=3D"http://www" target=3D"_blank">http://www</a>.<a hr= ef=3D"http://dictionary.com/words/" target=3D"_blank">dictionar<wbr>y.com/w= ords/</a>"</span>> <p <a class=3D"m_-3680229684002831364m_-7516606003097729134m_-1417= 418399130310658moz-txt-link-freetext">xml:base=3D</a>"a.html"> <ref target=3D"#apple">apple</ref> </p> </div> </div> </div>=20 </font></pre><p><font size=3D"-1">I didn=E2=80=99t think <a class=3D"m_-368= 0229684002831364m_-7516606003097729134moz-txt-link-freetext">xml:base</a> h= ad any necessary relation to the current document. I thought in XML (not HT= ML), it just sets a path for URIs below it.</font></p><p><font size=3D"-1">= -- </font></p><div><div class=3D"m_-3680229684002831364h5"> <div class=3D"m_-3680229684002831364m_-7516606003097729134moz-cite-prefix">= On 5/3/2017 3:42 PM, Hugh Cayless wrote: </div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">Well, we don't know ab= out the third one, except that it points to whatever element *in the same d= ocument* has the @<a class=3D"m_-3680229684002831364m_-7516606003097729134m= oz-txt-link-freetext">xml:id</a> "apple". When an application att= empts to dereference it, it should make the URI in @ref absolute and check = it against the base (<a class=3D"m_-3680229684002831364m_-75166060030977291= 34gmail-m_-1417418399130310658moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"http://www.dic= tionary.com/words/a.html" style=3D"white-space:pre-wrap" target=3D"_blank">= http://www.dictionary.com/wor<wbr>ds/a.html</a>), discover they are identic= al, decide it doesn't need to fetch anything, and go looking in the cur= rent document for the element with the id "apple".</div><div clas= s=3D"gmail_extra"> <div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, May 3, 2017 at 3:27 PM, John P. McCaskey= <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target= =3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>></span> wrote: <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p= x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> =20 =20 =20 <div bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF" text=3D"#000000"> <pre><font size=3D"-1">Are people proposing that these targets do not a= ll resolve=20 to the same <a class=3D"m_-3680229684002831364m_-7516606003097729134m_-1417= 418399130310658moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"http://www.dictionary.com/wor= ds/a.html#apple" target=3D"_blank">http://www.dictionary.com/word<wbr>s/a.h= tml#apple</a>? </font><font size=3D"-1"><div <a class=3D"m_-3680229684002831364m_-75166= 06003097729134m_-1417418399130310658moz-txt-link-freetext">xml:base=3D</a><= a class=3D"m_-3680229684002831364m_-7516606003097729134m_-14174183991303106= 58moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"http://www.dictionary.com/" target=3D"_bla= nk">"http://www.dictionar<wbr>y.com/"</a>> <p <a class=3D"m_-3680229684002831364m_-7516606003097729134m_-141741= 8399130310658moz-txt-link-freetext">xml:base=3D</a>"words/"> <ref target=3D"a.html#apple">apple</r<wbr>ef> </p> </div> <div <a class=3D"m_-3680229684002831364m_-7516606003097729134m_-14174183= 99130310658moz-txt-link-freetext">xml:base=3D</a><a class=3D"m_-36802296840= 02831364m_-7516606003097729134m_-1417418399130310658moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" = href=3D"http://www.dictionary.com/words/" target=3D"_blank">"http://ww= w.dictionar<wbr>y.com/words/"</a>> <p <a class=3D"m_-3680229684002831364m_-7516606003097729134m_-141741= 8399130310658moz-txt-link-freetext">xml:base=3D</a>"a.html"> <ref target=3D"#apple">apple</ref> </p> </div> <div <a class=3D"m_-3680229684002831364m_-7516606003097729134m_-14174183= 99130310658moz-txt-link-freetext">xml:base=3D</a><a class=3D"m_-36802296840= 02831364m_-7516606003097729134m_-1417418399130310658moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" = href=3D"http://www.dictionary.com/words/a.html" target=3D"_blank">"htt= p://www.dictionar<wbr>y.com/words/a.html"</a>> <p> <ref target=3D"#apple">apple</ref> </p> </div> <div <a class=3D"m_-3680229684002831364m_-7516606003097729134m_-14174183= 99130310658moz-txt-link-freetext">xml:base=3D</a><a class=3D"m_-36802296840= 02831364m_-7516606003097729134m_-1417418399130310658moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" = href=3D"http://www.dictionary.com/" target=3D"_blank">"http://www.dict= ionar<wbr>y.com/"</a>> <p> <ref target=3D"words/a.html#apple">ap<wbr>ple</r= ef> </p> </div></font><span class=3D"m_-3680229684002831364m_-7516606003097729= 134HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"> <font size=3D"-1"> --=20 </font></font></span></pre> </div> </blockquote></div> </div> </blockquote> </div></div></div></blockquote></div> </div> </blockquote> </div></div></div></blockquote></div><br></div> --94eb2c083c7a57e1ab054ea61123--