Re: @xml:base with @rendition (and maybe other pointers)

"John P. McCaskey" <[email protected]> Thu, 4 May 2017 15:31:42 -0400
Newsgroups gmane.text.tei.general
Message-ID <[email protected]>
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------86A46EBA1F8CCE9B2CA56A17
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

What is the short bottom-line guidance for someone trying to encode a=20
document? Is it this?

    To point inside a TEI document, as for @rendition, use pointers of
    the form #destination. Any later changes to xml:base values will not
    mess up your internal # pointers.

    Don=E2=80=99t try to point outside your TEI document by using xml:bas=
e plus
    a #destination in the pointer attribute. No xml:base attribute will
    be prepended to a pointer that begins with a #.

Even if I and others find that idiosyncratic and surprising, it=E2=80=99s=
=20
unambiguous, has practical benefits, requires no knowledge of RFCs or=20
W3C specs, is easy to articulate, and is easy to encode to.

John



On 5/4/2017 2:28 PM, Hugh Cayless wrote:
> That's a rather favorable interpretation on your part. One person=20
> agrees with you without elucidating, one says this discussion has=20
> jumped the shark (which is fair), and the third (Michael Kay) gives a=20
> fuller answer which adds up to "it depends". Michael Kay is quite=20
> correct that in the context where a document retrieval is *expected*=20
> to occur, the URI would indeed be computed with reference to its base=20
> and fetched.
>
> The thing is, I'm not aware of any TEI attributes or element/attribute=20
> combinations which are defined as *forcing* a retrieval action. I'd be=20
> happy to be corrected if I'm missing any, of course.
>
> It's fair to ask not just how one might expect them to behave, but=20
> what same-document references *mean* in the context of TEI documents=20
> with @xml:base. I agree this is something we ought to make clear. I=20
> think there is some possibility of wiggle room, given that TEI has its=20
> own media type. But I also think that we'd be better off adhering to=20
> the letter of RFC 3986. The use of same-document references in TEI=20
> documents is ubiquitous, and I'm firmly against anything that might=20
> break them.
>
> For what it's worth, modern web browsers seem to agree with your=20
> interpretation (mutatis mutandis=E2=80=94HTML base is not @xml:base). A=
s far=20
> as I can tell, probably because of a desire on the part of the Mozilla=20
> developers back in the day to maintain compatibility with IE 4(!).[1]
>
> To further complicate matters, the author of RFC 3986, Roy Fielding,=20
> has said that using @xml:base in the way you propose, i.e. to enable=20
> shorthand references rather than to set a canonical URI for the=20
> current document, is abusive.[2]
>
> Given all this, I still agree with Michael Sperberg-McQueen's fuller=20
> explication of the issues at hand. I would interpret same-document=20
> references as pointing to the current document, with the caveat that=20
> there might be, now or in the future, certain pointer attributes or=20
> element/attribute combinations that mandate a retrieval action. Such a=20
> retrieval would necessarily use whatever base was defined for the URI=20
> in question.
>
> References:
> 1.=20
> http://w3future.com/weblog/2005/01/13.xml#stillBugsInTheImplementationO=
fHtmlHyperlinks
> 2. http://w3future.com/weblog/2005/08/14.xml#howToUseBaseUris
>
> On Thu, May 4, 2017 at 10:16 AM, John P. McCaskey=20
> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>
>     I asked about this over at XML-DEV,
>     http://lists.xml.org/archives/xml-dev/201705/msg00008.html
>     <http://lists.xml.org/archives/xml-dev/201705/msg00008.html>.
>
>     Opinion there is with me and opposite the majority here.
>
>     Readers there don=E2=80=99t seem to think there is anything to deba=
te. I
>     got one short answer and one dismissive comment about =E2=80=9Dques=
tions
>     that simple.=E2=80=9D Someone take a look and be sure I didn=E2=80=99=
t word my
>     question unfairly.
>
>     Whichever interpretation TEI adopts, sounds like it should be
>     documented in the Guidelines or a note somewhere.
>
>     If the McCaskey/XML-DEV interpretation is adopted, the GitHub
>     issue I posted about @rendition stands. If not, that issue goes awa=
y.
>
>     John
>
>
>
>     On 5/3/2017 8:03 PM, Hugh Cayless wrote:
>>     Those are the cards we've been dealt, yeah.
>>
>>     Sent from my phone.
>>
>>     On May 3, 2017, at 19:53, John P. McCaskey
>>     <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote=
:
>>
>>>     So, bottom line: A standalone fragment identifier refers to the
>>>     loaded document and all the xml:base values above it in the
>>>     hierarchy are irrelevant. Encoders cannot use xml:base to direct
>>>     a standalone #fragment value to a location outside the loaded
>>>     document.
>>>
>>>     Is that right?
>>>
>>>     --
>>>
>>>
>>>     On 5/3/2017 6:20 PM, Hugh Cayless wrote:
>>>>     No. This clarifies the expected behavior when (e.g.) you have
>>>>     @xml:base=3D"#frag". It says nothing whatever about <p
>>>>     rendition=3D"#foo">. I don't think these specifications interact
>>>>     in the way you're positing. Quite the opposite.
>>>>
>>>>     On Wed, May 3, 2017 at 6:13 PM, John P. McCaskey
>>>>     <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wro=
te:
>>>>
>>>>         The special behavior of same-document references in RFC
>>>>         3986 is disavowed by W3C:
>>>>
>>>>             4.4 Interpretation of same-document references
>>>>
>>>>             RFC 3986 defines certain relative URI references, in
>>>>             particular the empty string and those of the form
>>>>             #fragment, as same-document references. Dereferencing
>>>>             of same-document references is handled specially.
>>>>             However, their use as the value of an *xml:base
>>>>             attribute does not* *involve *dereferencing, and XML
>>>>             Base processors should resolve them in the usual way.
>>>>             In particular, xml:base=3D"" does not reset the base URI
>>>>             to that of the containing document.
>>>>
>>>>             Note:
>>>>
>>>>             Some existing processors do treat these xml:base values
>>>>             as resetting the base URI to that of the containing
>>>>             document, so the use of such values is strongly
>>>>             discouraged.
>>>>
>>>>         This says:
>>>>
>>>>             RFC 3986 defines special =E2=80=9Cdereferencing=E2=80=9D=
 of empty
>>>>             strings and #fragments. But over here in XML-land, we
>>>>             don=E2=80=99t do =E2=80=9Cdereferencing.=E2=80=9C That=E2=
=80=99s not a word we use
>>>>             here. Ignore that stuff about same-document references.
>>>>             Just resolve empty strings and #fragments as specified
>>>>             in the W3C Recommendation above. And those of you who
>>>>             did carry that stuff over from 3986 to XML-land, shame
>>>>             on you. You messed things up for the rest of us.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         A note has:
>>>>
>>>>             5. The meanings of xml:base=3D"" and xml:base=3D"#frag"
>>>>             have been clarified;
>>>>
>>>>         This says:
>>>>
>>>>             In this second version of this recommendation, we added
>>>>             paragraph 4.4 specifically to get you 3986 people to
>>>>             stop polluting our W3C with your special cases. Stop
>>>>             doing that.
>>>>
>>>>         No?
>>>>
>>>>         -- John
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         On 5/3/2017 5:09 PM, Hugh Cayless wrote:
>>>>>         That's exactly what it does. It's just that the behavior
>>>>>         of same-document references is prescribed in such a way
>>>>>         that they end up resolving to the current document
>>>>>         regardless of the value of the @xml:base.
>>>>>
>>>>>         Put another way, @xml:base has an influence on what the
>>>>>         client application will retrieve when it dereferences a
>>>>>         URI and retrieves the referenced document, but in the case
>>>>>         of same-document references no such retrieval is expected
>>>>>         to occur=E2=80=94it's assumed the client already has the do=
cument.
>>>>>
>>>>>         On Wed, May 3, 2017 at 4:29 PM, John P. McCaskey
>>>>>         <[email protected]
>>>>>         <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>             Oh. I thought it obvious they all resolved the same.
>>>>>
>>>>>             I think the same about this one. You think otherwise?
>>>>>
>>>>>             <div xml:base=3D"http://www.myteiproject.com/"
>>>>>             <http://www.myteiproject.com/> <div
>>>>>             xml:base=3D"images/"> <div> <graphic url=3D"logo.jpg">
>>>>>             </div> <div xml:base=3D"http://www.dictionary.com/words=
/
>>>>>             <http://dictionary.com/words/>"> <p xml:base=3D"a.html"=
>
>>>>>             <ref target=3D"#apple">apple</ref> </p> </div> </div>
>>>>>             </div>
>>>>>
>>>>>             I didn=E2=80=99t think xml:base had any necessary relat=
ion to
>>>>>             the current document. I thought in XML (not HTML), it
>>>>>             just sets a path for URIs below it.
>>>>>
>>>>>             --=20
>>>>>
>>>>>             On 5/3/2017 3:42 PM, Hugh Cayless wrote:
>>>>>>             Well, we don't know about the third one, except that
>>>>>>             it points to whatever element *in the same document*
>>>>>>             has the @xml:id "apple". When an application attempts
>>>>>>             to dereference it, it should make the URI in @ref
>>>>>>             absolute and check it against the base
>>>>>>             (http://www.dictionary.com/words/a.html
>>>>>>             <http://www.dictionary.com/words/a.html>), discover
>>>>>>             they are identical, decide it doesn't need to fetch
>>>>>>             anything, and go looking in the current document for
>>>>>>             the element with the id "apple".
>>>>>>             On Wed, May 3, 2017 at 3:27 PM, John P. McCaskey
>>>>>>             <[email protected]
>>>>>>             <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                 Are people proposing that these targets do not
>>>>>>                 all resolve to the same
>>>>>>                 http://www.dictionary.com/words/a.html#apple
>>>>>>                 <http://www.dictionary.com/words/a.html#apple>?
>>>>>>                 <div xml:base=3D"http://www.dictionary.com/"
>>>>>>                 <http://www.dictionary.com/>> <p
>>>>>>                 xml:base=3D"words/"> <ref
>>>>>>                 target=3D"a.html#apple">apple</ref> </p> </div>
>>>>>>                 <div xml:base=3D"http://www.dictionary.com/words/"
>>>>>>                 <http://www.dictionary.com/words/>> <p
>>>>>>                 xml:base=3D"a.html"> <ref
>>>>>>                 target=3D"#apple">apple</ref> </p> </div> <div
>>>>>>                 xml:base=3D"http://www.dictionary.com/words/a.html=
"
>>>>>>                 <http://www.dictionary.com/words/a.html>> <p>
>>>>>>                 <ref target=3D"#apple">apple</ref> </p> </div> <di=
v
>>>>>>                 xml:base=3D"http://www.dictionary.com/"
>>>>>>                 <http://www.dictionary.com/>> <p> <ref
>>>>>>                 target=3D"words/a.html#apple">apple</ref> </p>
>>>>>>                 </div>--
>>>>>>

--------------86A46EBA1F8CCE9B2CA56A17
Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html>
  <head>
    <meta content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8" http-equiv=3D"Content-Ty=
pe">
  </head>
  <body bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF" text=3D"#000000">
    <p><font size=3D"-1">What is the short bottom-line guidance for
        someone trying to encode a document? Is it this?<br>
      </font></p>
    <blockquote>
      <p><font size=3D"-1">To point inside a TEI document, as for
          @rendition, use pointers of the form #destination. Any later
          changes to <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"xml:base"=
>xml:base</a> values will not mess up your internal #
          pointers.<br>
        </font></p>
      <p><font size=3D"-1">Don=E2=80=99t try to point outside your TEI do=
cument by
          using <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"xml:base">xml:=
base</a> plus a #destination in the pointer attribute.
          No <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"xml:base">xml:bas=
e</a> attribute will be prepended to a pointer that
          begins with a #.</font></p>
    </blockquote>
    <p><font size=3D"-1">Even if I and others find that idiosyncratic and
        surprising, it=E2=80=99s unambiguous, has practical benefits, req=
uires
        no knowledge of RFCs or W3C specs, is easy to articulate, and is
        easy to encode to.</font></p>
    <p><font size=3D"-1">John<br>
      </font></p>
    <p><font size=3D"-1"><br>
      </font></p>
    <p><font size=3D"-1"><br>
      </font></p>
    <div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix">On 5/4/2017 2:28 PM, Hugh Cayless
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite=3D"mid:[email protected]=
ail.com"
      type=3D"cite">
      <div dir=3D"ltr">That's a rather favorable interpretation on your
        part. One person agrees with you without elucidating, one says
        this discussion has jumped the shark (which is fair), and the
        third (Michael Kay) gives a fuller answer which adds up to "it
        depends". Michael Kay is quite correct that in the context where
        a document retrieval is *expected* to occur, the URI would
        indeed be computed with reference to its base and fetched.=C2=A0
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>The thing is, I'm not aware of any TEI attributes or
          element/attribute combinations which are defined as *forcing*
          a retrieval action. I'd be happy to be corrected if I'm
          missing any, of course.=C2=A0</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>It's fair to ask not just how one might expect them to
          behave, but what same-document references *mean* in the
          context of TEI documents with @<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetex=
t" href=3D"xml:base">xml:base</a>. I agree this is
          something we ought to make clear. I think there is some
          possibility of wiggle room, given that TEI has its own media
          type. But I also think that we'd be better off adhering to the
          letter of RFC 3986. The use of same-document references in TEI
          documents is ubiquitous, and I'm firmly against anything that
          might break them.</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>For what it's worth, modern web browsers seem to agree with
          your interpretation (mutatis mutandis=E2=80=94HTML base is not
          @<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"xml:base">xml:base<=
/a>). As far as I can tell, probably because of a desire
          on the part of the Mozilla developers back in the day to
          maintain compatibility with IE 4(!).[1]</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>To further complicate matters, the author of RFC 3986, Roy
          Fielding, has said that using @<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetex=
t" href=3D"xml:base">xml:base</a> in the way you
          propose, i.e. to enable shorthand references rather than to
          set a canonical URI for the current document,=C2=A0is abusive.[=
2]</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>Given all this, I still agree with Michael
          Sperberg-McQueen's fuller explication of the issues at hand. I
          would interpret same-document references as pointing to the
          current document, with the caveat that there might be, now or
          in the future, certain pointer attributes or element/attribute
          combinations that mandate a retrieval action. Such a retrieval
          would necessarily use whatever base was defined for the URI in
          question.</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>References:</div>
        <div>1.=C2=A0<a moz-do-not-send=3D"true"
href=3D"http://w3future.com/weblog/2005/01/13.xml#stillBugsInTheImplement=
ationOfHtmlHyperlinks">http://w3future.com/weblog/2005/01/13.xml#stillBug=
sInTheImplementationOfHtmlHyperlinks</a></div>
        <div>2. <a moz-do-not-send=3D"true"
            href=3D"http://w3future.com/weblog/2005/08/14.xml#howToUseBas=
eUris">http://w3future.com/weblog/2005/08/14.xml#howToUseBaseUris</a>=C2=A0=
</div>
      </div>
      <div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>
        <div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, May 4, 2017 at 10:16 AM, John
          P. McCaskey <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a moz-do-not-send=3D"true"
              href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">=
[email protected]</a>&gt;</span>
          wrote:<br>
          <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0
            .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
            <div bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF" text=3D"#000000">
              <p><font size=3D"-1">I asked about this over at XML-DEV, <a
                    moz-do-not-send=3D"true"
                    href=3D"http://lists.xml.org/archives/xml-dev/201705/=
msg00008.html"
                    target=3D"_blank">http://lists.xml.org/archives/<wbr>=
xml-dev/201705/msg00008.html</a>.</font></p>
              <p><font size=3D"-1">Opinion there is with me and opposite
                  the majority here.<br>
                </font></p>
              <p><font size=3D"-1">Readers there don=E2=80=99t seem to th=
ink there
                  is anything to debate. I got one short answer and one
                  dismissive comment about =E2=80=9Dquestions that simple=
.=E2=80=9D
                  Someone take a look and be sure I didn=E2=80=99t word m=
y
                  question unfairly.<br>
                </font></p>
              <font size=3D"-1">Whichever interpretation TEI adopts,
                sounds like it should be documented in the Guidelines or
                a note somewhere.<br>
                <br>
                If the McCaskey/XML-DEV interpretation is adopted, the
                GitHub issue I posted about @rendition stands. If not,
                that issue goes away.<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font
                    color=3D"#888888"><br>
                  </font></span></font><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font
                  color=3D"#888888">
                  <p><font size=3D"-1">John<br>
                    </font></p>
                </font></span>
              <div>
                <div class=3D"h5">
                  <p><font size=3D"-1"><br>
                    </font></p>
                  <br>
                  <div class=3D"m_1517433518565409704moz-cite-prefix">On
                    5/3/2017 8:03 PM, Hugh Cayless wrote:<br>
                  </div>
                  <blockquote type=3D"cite">
                    <div>Those are the cards we've been dealt, yeah.=C2=A0=
<br>
                      <br>
                      Sent from my phone.=C2=A0</div>
                    <div><br>
                      On May 3, 2017, at 19:53, John P. McCaskey &lt;<a
                        moz-do-not-send=3D"true"
                        href=3D"mailto:[email protected]"
                        target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>&gt=
;
                      wrote:<br>
                      <br>
                    </div>
                    <blockquote type=3D"cite">
                      <div>
                        <p><font size=3D"-1">So, bottom line: A standalon=
e
                            fragment identifier refers to the loaded
                            document and all the <a
                              moz-do-not-send=3D"true"
                              class=3D"m_1517433518565409704moz-txt-link-=
freetext">xml:base</a>
                            values above it in the hierarchy are
                            irrelevant. Encoders cannot use <a
                              moz-do-not-send=3D"true"
                              class=3D"m_1517433518565409704moz-txt-link-=
freetext">xml:base</a>
                            to direct a standalone #fragment value to a
                            location outside the loaded document.</font><=
/p>
                        <p><font size=3D"-1">Is that right?</font></p>
                        <p><font size=3D"-1">--<br>
                          </font></p>
                        <p><br>
                        </p>
                        <div
                          class=3D"m_1517433518565409704moz-cite-prefix">=
<font
                            size=3D"-1">On 5/3/2017 6:20 PM, Hugh Cayless
                            wrote:</font><br>
                        </div>
                        <blockquote type=3D"cite">
                          <div dir=3D"ltr"><font size=3D"-1">No. This
                              clarifies the expected behavior when
                              (e.g.) you have @<a moz-do-not-send=3D"true=
"
class=3D"m_1517433518565409704moz-txt-link-freetext">xml:base=3D</a>"#fra=
g".
                              It says nothing whatever about &lt;p
                              rendition=3D"#foo"&gt;. I don't think these
                              specifications interact in the way you're
                              positing. Quite the opposite.</font></div>
                          <div class=3D"gmail_extra"><font size=3D"-1"><b=
r>
                            </font>
                            <div class=3D"gmail_quote"><font size=3D"-1">=
On
                                Wed, May 3, 2017 at 6:13 PM, John P.
                                McCaskey <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a
                                    moz-do-not-send=3D"true"
                                    href=3D"mailto:[email protected]=
om"
                                    target=3D"_blank">mailbox@johnmccaske=
y.com</a>&gt;</span>
                                wrote:</font><br>
                              <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote"
                                style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x
                                #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                                <div bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF" text=3D"#000000"=
>
                                  <p>The special behavior of
                                    same-document references in RFC 3986
                                    is disavowed by W3C: <br>
                                  </p>
                                  <span>
                                    <blockquote>
                                      <p><font size=3D"-2">4.4
                                          Interpretation of
                                          same-document references<br>
                                          <br>
                                          RFC 3986 defines certain
                                          relative URI references, in
                                          particular the empty string
                                          and those of the form
                                          #fragment, as same-document
                                          references. Dereferencing of
                                          same-document references is
                                          handled specially. However,
                                          their use as the value of an <b=
><a
                                              moz-do-not-send=3D"true"
                                              class=3D"m_1517433518565409=
704m_-3680229684002831364moz-txt-link-freetext">xml:base</a>
                                            attribute does not</b> <b>inv=
olve
                                          </b>dereferencing, and XML
                                          Base processors should resolve
                                          them in the usual way. In
                                          particular, <a
                                            moz-do-not-send=3D"true"
                                            class=3D"m_151743351856540970=
4m_-3680229684002831364moz-txt-link-freetext">xml:base=3D</a>""
                                          does not reset the base URI to
                                          that of the containing
                                          document.<br>
                                          <br>
                                          Note:<br>
                                          <br>
                                          Some existing processors do
                                          treat these <a
                                            moz-do-not-send=3D"true"
                                            class=3D"m_151743351856540970=
4m_-3680229684002831364moz-txt-link-freetext">xml:base</a>
                                          values as resetting the base
                                          URI to that of the containing
                                          document, so the use of such
                                          values is strongly
                                          discouraged.</font><br>
                                      </p>
                                    </blockquote>
                                  </span> This says:<br>
                                  <blockquote>RFC 3986 defines special
                                    =E2=80=9Cdereferencing=E2=80=9D of em=
pty strings and
                                    #fragments. But over here in
                                    XML-land, we don=E2=80=99t do
                                    =E2=80=9Cdereferencing.=E2=80=9C That=
=E2=80=99s not a word
                                    we use here. Ignore that stuff about
                                    same-document references. Just
                                    resolve empty strings and #fragments
                                    as specified in the W3C
                                    Recommendation above. And those of
                                    you who did carry that stuff over
                                    from 3986 to XML-land, shame on you.
                                    You messed things up for the rest of
                                    us. <br>
                                  </blockquote>
                                  <br>
                                  A note has:<br>
                                  <blockquote><font size=3D"-2">5. The
                                      meanings of <a
                                        moz-do-not-send=3D"true"
                                        class=3D"m_1517433518565409704m_-=
3680229684002831364moz-txt-link-freetext">xml:base=3D</a>""
                                      and <a moz-do-not-send=3D"true"
                                        class=3D"m_1517433518565409704m_-=
3680229684002831364moz-txt-link-freetext">xml:base=3D</a>"#frag"
                                      have been clarified;</font><br>
                                  </blockquote>
                                  This says: <br>
                                  <blockquote>In this second version of
                                    this recommendation, we added
                                    paragraph 4.4 specifically to get
                                    you 3986 people to stop polluting
                                    our W3C with your special cases.
                                    Stop doing that.<br>
                                  </blockquote>
                                  No?<span
                                    class=3D"m_1517433518565409704HOEnZb"=
><font
                                      color=3D"#888888"><br>
                                      <br>
                                      -- John</font></span>
                                  <div>
                                    <div class=3D"m_1517433518565409704h5=
"><br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <div
                                        class=3D"m_1517433518565409704m_-=
3680229684002831364moz-cite-prefix">On
                                        5/3/2017 5:09 PM, Hugh Cayless
                                        wrote:<br>
                                      </div>
                                      <blockquote type=3D"cite">
                                        <div dir=3D"ltr">That's exactly
                                          what it does. It's just that
                                          the behavior of same-document
                                          references is prescribed in
                                          such a way that they end up
                                          resolving to the current
                                          document regardless of the
                                          value of the @<a
                                            moz-do-not-send=3D"true"
                                            class=3D"m_151743351856540970=
4m_-3680229684002831364moz-txt-link-freetext">xml:base</a>.
                                          <div><br>
                                          </div>
                                          <div>Put another way, @<a
                                              moz-do-not-send=3D"true"
                                              class=3D"m_1517433518565409=
704m_-3680229684002831364moz-txt-link-freetext">xml:base</a>
                                            has an influence on what the
                                            client application will
                                            retrieve when it
                                            dereferences a URI and
                                            retrieves the referenced
                                            document, but in the case of
                                            same-document references no
                                            such retrieval is expected
                                            to occur=E2=80=94it's assumed=
 the
                                            client already has the
                                            document.</div>
                                        </div>
                                        <div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>
                                          <div class=3D"gmail_quote">On
                                            Wed, May 3, 2017 at 4:29 PM,
                                            John P. McCaskey <span
                                              dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a
                                                moz-do-not-send=3D"true"
                                                href=3D"mailto:mailbox@jo=
hnmccaskey.com"
                                                target=3D"_blank">mailbox=
@johnmccaskey.com</a>&gt;</span>
                                            wrote:<br>
                                            <blockquote
                                              class=3D"gmail_quote"
                                              style=3D"margin:0 0 0
                                              .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
                                              solid;padding-left:1ex">
                                              <div bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"
                                                text=3D"#000000">
                                                <p><font size=3D"-1">Oh. =
I
                                                    thought it obvious
                                                    they all resolved
                                                    the same. <br>
                                                  </font></p>
                                                <p><font size=3D"-1">I
                                                    think the same about
                                                    this one. You think
                                                    otherwise?<br>
                                                  </font></p>
                                                <pre><font size=3D"-1">&l=
t;div <a moz-do-not-send=3D"true" class=3D"m_1517433518565409704m_-368022=
9684002831364m_-7516606003097729134moz-txt-link-freetext">xml:base=3D</a>=
<a moz-do-not-send=3D"true" class=3D"m_1517433518565409704m_-368022968400=
2831364m_-7516606003097729134moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"http://www.my=
teiproject.com/" target=3D"_blank">"http://www.myteiproj<wbr>ect.com/"</a=
>
  &lt;div <a moz-do-not-send=3D"true" class=3D"m_1517433518565409704m_-36=
80229684002831364m_-7516606003097729134moz-txt-link-freetext">xml:base=3D=
</a>"images/"&gt;
    &lt;div&gt;
      &lt;graphic url=3D"logo.jpg"&gt;
    &lt;/div&gt;
    &lt;div <a moz-do-not-send=3D"true" class=3D"m_1517433518565409704m_-=
3680229684002831364m_-7516606003097729134m_-1417418399130310658moz-txt-li=
nk-freetext">xml:base=3D</a><span class=3D"m_1517433518565409704m_-368022=
9684002831364m_-7516606003097729134m_-1417418399130310658moz-txt-link-rfc=
2396E">"<a moz-do-not-send=3D"true" class=3D"m_1517433518565409704m_-3680=
229684002831364m_-7516606003097729134moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"http:=
//www" target=3D"_blank">http://www</a>.<a moz-do-not-send=3D"true" href=3D=
"http://dictionary.com/words/" target=3D"_blank">dictionar<wbr>y.com/word=
s/</a>"</span>&gt;
      &lt;p <a moz-do-not-send=3D"true" class=3D"m_1517433518565409704m_-=
3680229684002831364m_-7516606003097729134m_-1417418399130310658moz-txt-li=
nk-freetext">xml:base=3D</a>"a.html"&gt;
        &lt;ref target=3D"#apple"&gt;apple&lt;/ref&gt;
      &lt;/p&gt;
    &lt;/div&gt;
  &lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;=20
</font></pre><p><font size=3D"-1">I didn=E2=80=99t think <a moz-do-not-se=
nd=3D"true" class=3D"m_1517433518565409704m_-3680229684002831364m_-751660=
6003097729134moz-txt-link-freetext">xml:base</a> had any necessary relati=
on to the current document. I thought in XML (not HTML), it just sets a p=
ath for URIs below it.</font></p><p><font size=3D"-1">--
</font></p><div><div class=3D"m_1517433518565409704m_-3680229684002831364=
h5">
<div class=3D"m_1517433518565409704m_-3680229684002831364m_-7516606003097=
729134moz-cite-prefix">On 5/3/2017 3:42 PM, Hugh Cayless wrote:
</div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">Well, we don't know abou=
t the third one, except that it points to whatever element *in the same d=
ocument* has the @<a moz-do-not-send=3D"true" class=3D"m_1517433518565409=
704m_-3680229684002831364m_-7516606003097729134moz-txt-link-freetext">xml=
:id</a> "apple". When an application attempts to dereference it, it shoul=
d make the URI in @ref absolute and check it against the base (<a moz-do-=
not-send=3D"true" class=3D"m_1517433518565409704m_-3680229684002831364m_-=
7516606003097729134gmail-m_-1417418399130310658moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" hre=
f=3D"http://www.dictionary.com/words/a.html" style=3D"white-space:pre-wra=
p" target=3D"_blank">http://www.dictionary.com/wor<wbr>ds/a.html</a>), di=
scover they are identical, decide it doesn't need to fetch anything, and =
go looking in the current document for the element with the id "apple".</=
div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, May 3, 2017 at 3:27 PM, John P. McCask=
ey <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a moz-do-not-send=3D"true" href=3D"mailto:mailb=
[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>&gt;</=
span> wrote:
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:=
1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
 =20
   =20
 =20
  <div bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF" text=3D"#000000">
    <pre><font size=3D"-1">Are people proposing that these targets do not=
 all resolve=20
to the same <a moz-do-not-send=3D"true" class=3D"m_1517433518565409704m_-=
3680229684002831364m_-7516606003097729134m_-1417418399130310658moz-txt-li=
nk-freetext" href=3D"http://www.dictionary.com/words/a.html#apple" target=
=3D"_blank">http://www.dictionary.com/word<wbr>s/a.html#apple</a>?

</font><font size=3D"-1">&lt;div <a moz-do-not-send=3D"true" class=3D"m_1=
517433518565409704m_-3680229684002831364m_-7516606003097729134m_-14174183=
99130310658moz-txt-link-freetext">xml:base=3D</a><a moz-do-not-send=3D"tr=
ue" class=3D"m_1517433518565409704m_-3680229684002831364m_-75166060030977=
29134m_-1417418399130310658moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"http://www.dict=
ionary.com/" target=3D"_blank">"http://www.dictionar<wbr>y.com/"</a>&gt;
    &lt;p <a moz-do-not-send=3D"true" class=3D"m_1517433518565409704m_-36=
80229684002831364m_-7516606003097729134m_-1417418399130310658moz-txt-link=
-freetext">xml:base=3D</a>"words/"&gt;
        &lt;ref target=3D"a.html#apple"&gt;apple&lt;/r<wbr>ef&gt;
    &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;div <a moz-do-not-send=3D"true" class=3D"m_1517433518565409704m_-3680=
229684002831364m_-7516606003097729134m_-1417418399130310658moz-txt-link-f=
reetext">xml:base=3D</a><a moz-do-not-send=3D"true" class=3D"m_1517433518=
565409704m_-3680229684002831364m_-7516606003097729134m_-14174183991303106=
58moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"http://www.dictionary.com/words/" target=
=3D"_blank">"http://www.dictionar<wbr>y.com/words/"</a>&gt;
    &lt;p <a moz-do-not-send=3D"true" class=3D"m_1517433518565409704m_-36=
80229684002831364m_-7516606003097729134m_-1417418399130310658moz-txt-link=
-freetext">xml:base=3D</a>"a.html"&gt;
        &lt;ref target=3D"#apple"&gt;apple&lt;/ref&gt;
    &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;div <a moz-do-not-send=3D"true" class=3D"m_1517433518565409704m_-3680=
229684002831364m_-7516606003097729134m_-1417418399130310658moz-txt-link-f=
reetext">xml:base=3D</a><a moz-do-not-send=3D"true" class=3D"m_1517433518=
565409704m_-3680229684002831364m_-7516606003097729134m_-14174183991303106=
58moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"http://www.dictionary.com/words/a.html" =
target=3D"_blank">"http://www.dictionar<wbr>y.com/words/a.html"</a>&gt;
    &lt;p&gt;
        &lt;ref target=3D"#apple"&gt;apple&lt;/ref&gt;
    &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;div <a moz-do-not-send=3D"true" class=3D"m_1517433518565409704m_-3680=
229684002831364m_-7516606003097729134m_-1417418399130310658moz-txt-link-f=
reetext">xml:base=3D</a><a moz-do-not-send=3D"true" class=3D"m_1517433518=
565409704m_-3680229684002831364m_-7516606003097729134m_-14174183991303106=
58moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"http://www.dictionary.com/" target=3D"_b=
lank">"http://www.dictionar<wbr>y.com/"</a>&gt;
    &lt;p&gt;
        &lt;ref target=3D"words/a.html#apple"&gt;ap<wbr>ple&lt;/ref&gt;
    &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;</font><span class=3D"m_1517433518565409704m_-368022968400283=
1364m_-7516606003097729134HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888">
<font size=3D"-1">
--=20
</font></font></span></pre>
  </div>

</blockquote></div>
</div>



</blockquote>
</div></div></div></blockquote></div>
</div>



</blockquote>
</div></div></div></blockquote></div>
</div>



</blockquote>
</div></blockquote>


</blockquote>
</div></div></div></blockquote></div>
</div>



</blockquote>
</body></html>
--------------86A46EBA1F8CCE9B2CA56A17--