Re: <sp> dans <seg>
Elisa <[email protected]> Fri, 5 May 2017 11:06:40 -0400
| Newsgroups | gmane.text.tei.general |
|---|---|
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--Apple-Mail-3055444B-BD73-4E9A-BF27-23C631AD1BEA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Iona-- Since you point out that marking those complex <join/> @targets is= cumbersome, I think we're seeking an easier solution for inline markup. I a= m using <milestone/> in a project for similar reasons as you indicate here: t= o indicate a series of something that could start, be interrupted, and end a= t any level of the structural hierarchy. The system we devised runs like thi= s, so as to accommodate interruptions: <milestone unit=3D"start" ana=3D"yourTopic"/> <milestone unit=3D"intStart"/> (for the start of an interruption)=20 <milestone unit=3D"intEnd"/> (for the end of an interruption and return to t= he phenomenon you are marking) <milestone unit=3D"end"/>=20 The @ana could go on all of those, but in my project we just set it on the @= start, and we wrote some Schematron rules to make sure we signal the precedi= ng:: and following:: milestone elements in the proper order. So, no mileston= e of @unit=3DintEnd may follow as the first milestone after one of @unit=3D"= start". I am happy to share the Schematron I wrote for just those rules, whi= ch I first wrote as a separate file and then converted into an ODD. I think i= t's easier to read as a Schematron file, for what it's worth! I suppose what= I'm exchanging is one kind of cumbersome for another: if you have a schema t= hat can check your sequence of milestone elements, your inline markup of som= ething like this can be much easier. Hope this is potentially useful! Elisa -- Elisa Beshero-Bondar, PhD=20 Director, Center for the Digital Text Associate Professor of English=20 University of Pittsburgh at Greensburg 150 Finoli Drive, Greensburg, PA 15601 USA E-mail: [email protected] | Development site: http://newtfire.org Typeset by hand on my iPad > On May 5, 2017, at 8:28 AM, James Cummings <[email protected]> wr= ote: >=20 > Hi Ioana, >=20 > Another approach might be to use <milestone/> to indicate the points at wh= ich things change, but I see the attraction for using <join/> as you are, an= d it can point to @xml:id's at any level. In this case they are all a set ru= n of speeches which any solution would probably work but does it ever happen= that one or two speeches break off and are not part of this set of confront= ations in the middle? If so then a pointing system like <join/> makes a lot= of sense. The output from a query for all the contiguous confrontations wo= uld be possible in any of the solutions I think. Asking for the xml:ids of a= ll speeches between two milestones; asking for all the speeches that contain= @ana=3D'#Affront_Rivales' where either the next or previous speech also did= ; or all the targets from a join element. All possible, but depending on the= technologies chosen some might be easier than others. (And the join solutio= n is probably easiest from a processing point of view.) >=20 > Oh, and for the record I wouldn't hesitate to post encoding examples in Fre= nch (or Latin, or Sumerian, or Japanese, or even Halkomelem if I had any) th= e TEI is international and so our discussions concerning text on this list s= hould be. My poor French happens to be good enough to read this scene (than= ks!) and there are lots of native and fluent French speakers on the list. (= And indeed, in this case it doesn't really matter so much _what_ the text sa= ys as how you are choosing to encode it.) I do recognise that asking the qu= estions in English here will get more answers than asking in French, but I'd= certainly not want to dissuade people from also asking questions in other l= anguages if they wish. >=20 > Cordialement, >=20 > -James >=20 >=20 >> On 05/05/17 13:09, Ioana Galleron wrote: >> Hi James, >>=20 >> Thanks for answering fast! >> I thought about it, but this means, in practice, that when I will seek fo= r =C2=AB confrontations =C2=BB in my plays I=E2=80=99ll actually get as many= as <sp> marked up, while in fact it is a series of <sp> which constitutes o= ne confrontation; the limits of this topical scene will be more difficult to= spot - hence the use of <join>=E2=80=A6 >> I copy and paste a bit of a scene thus marked up, but since it is in Fren= ch, I hesitated to do it the first time round. >> Best, >> Ioana=20 >> <interp xml:id=3D"Affront_Rivales">Afrrontement de femmes rivales, de car= act=C3=A8re oppos=C3=A9.</interp> >> <div type=3D"scene" n=3D"4" xml:id=3D"III_4"> >> <head>SCENE IV</head> >> <stage>CEPHISE, CIDALISE</stage> >> <sp who=3D"Cephise" xml:id=3D"III_4_1"> >> <speaker>CEPHISE<pc>.</pc></speaker> >> <p>Enfin, ma niece, il faut nous s=C3=A9parer, vous par= tirez demain, s'il vous pla=C3=AEt, >> pour aller trouver votre pere; j=E2=80=99ai bien vou= lu me charger du soin de vous >> l'apprendre, de crainte que mon mari ne vous le d=C3= =AEt avec plus d'aigreur.</p> >> </sp> >> <sp who=3D"Cidalise" xml:id=3D"III_4_2"> >> <speaker>CIDALISE<pc>.</pc></speaker> >> <p>Je re=C3=A7ois tous les jours de ma vie, Madame, de n= ouvelles marques de vos bont=C3=A9s; >> mais, Madame, voudriez-vous bien joindre une gr=C3=A2= ce =C3=A0 toutes les obligations que >> je vous ai?</p> >> </sp> >> <sp who=3D"Cephise" xml:id=3D"III_4_3"> >> <speaker>CEPHISE<pc>.</pc></speaker> >> <p>Si c'est quelque chose qui d=C3=A9pende de moi, ma n= iece.</p> >> </sp> >> <sp who=3D"Cidalise" xml:id=3D"III_4_4"> >> <speaker>CIDALISE<pc>.</pc></speaker> >> <p>La chose vous sera facile, Madame. </p> >> </sp> >> <sp who=3D"Cephise" xml:id=3D"III_4_5"> >> <speaker>CEPHISE<pc>.</pc></speaker> >> <p> Ne me priez point surtout, de parler =C3=A0 mon mar= i pour vous.</p> >> </sp> >> <sp who=3D"Cidalise" xml:id=3D"III_4_6"> >> <speaker>CIDALISE<pc>.</pc></speaker> >> <p>Non, Madame.</p> >> </sp> >> <sp who=3D"Cephise" xml:id=3D"III_4_7"> >> <speaker>CEPHISE<pc>.</pc></speaker> >> <p>Cela seroit inutile.</p> >> </sp> >> <sp who=3D"Cidalise" xml:id=3D"III_4_8"> >> <speaker>CIDALISE<pc>.</pc></speaker> >> <p>J'en suis persuad=C3=A9e, Madame.</p> >> </sp> >> <sp who=3D"Cephise" xml:id=3D"III_4_9"> >> <speaker>CEPHISE<pc>.</pc></speaker> >> <p>Il ne veut point souffrir que vous soyez davantage c= hez lui.</p> >> </sp> >> <sp who=3D"Cidalise" xml:id=3D"III_4_10"> >> <speaker>CIDALISE<pc>.</pc></speaker> >> <p>Je ne veux point y demeurer malgr=C3=A9 lui, ni malg= r=C3=A9 vous, Madame.</p> >> </sp> >> <sp who=3D"Cephise" xml:id=3D"III_4_11"> >> <speaker>CEPHISE<pc>.</pc></speaker> >> <p>Que voulez-vous donc que je fasse?</p> >> </sp> >> <sp who=3D"Cidalise" xml:id=3D"III_4_12"> >> <speaker>CIDALISE<pc>.</pc></speaker> >> <p>Permettre que je puisse parler =C3=A0 mon oncle avan= t que de le quitter.</p> >> </sp> >> <sp who=3D"Cephise" xml:id=3D"III_4_13"> >> <speaker>CEPHISE<pc>.</pc></speaker> >> <p>Non, ma niece, je ne vous le conseille pas, il est d= ans un trop grand >> emportement contre vous.</p> >> </sp> >> <sp who=3D"Cidalise" xml:id=3D"III_4_14"> >> <speaker>CIDALISE<pc>.</pc></speaker> >> <p>Mais, au moins, ne puis-je savoir les crimes dont on= m'accuse?</p> >> </sp> >> <sp who=3D"Cephise" xml:id=3D"III_4_15"> >> <speaker>CEPHISE<pc>.</pc></speaker> >> <p>Eh, mon Dieu, ma niece, rendez-vous un peu de justic= e! Pour moi, je vous crois >> la plus innocente personne du monde; mais en v=C3=A9= rit=C3=A9 les apparences sont >> terriblement contre vous.</p> >> </sp> >> <sp who=3D"Cidalise" xml:id=3D"III_4_16"> >> <speaker>CIDALISE<pc>.</pc></speaker> >> <p>Il est ais=C3=A9 d'empoisonner les choses les plus i= nnocentes: mais cependant...</p> >> </sp> >> <join target=3D"#III_4_1 #III_4_2 #III_4_3 #III_4_4 #III_4= _5 #III_4_6 #III_4_7 #III_4_8 #III_4_9 #III_4_10" ana=3D"#Affront_Rivales"/>= >> <sp who=3D"Cephise" xml:id=3D"III_4_17"> >> (the scene continus after this, but the conversatio moves to other topics= ). >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>> Le 5 mai 2017 =C3=A0 13:01, James Cummings <[email protected]> a= =C3=A9crit : >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Hi Ioana, >>>=20 >>> I might be misunderstanding without a clear example, but if the entirety= of the speech is relating to a particular interpretation then why not use t= he @ana attribute on the speech itself? Then where the interpretation stops= or changes mid-speech then mark it using <seg> inside the paragraph or vers= e lines. <seg> is definitely only intended for phrase-level segments of text= . (<ab> is the equivalent for paragraph-like anonymous blocks.) >>>=20 >>> <sp ana=3D"#confrontation"> >>> <p>Some text</p> >>> </sp> >>> <sp ana=3D"#confrontation"> >>> <l>Some verse continuing the confrontation</l> >>> </sp> >>> <sp> >>> <p><seg ana=3D"#confrontation">Here some confrontation</seg> <seg ana=3D= "#somethingElse">a different segment of interpretation</seg></p> >>> </sp> >>>=20 >>> These can indeed point to <interp> elements as you note, those for some f= orms of more taxonomical interpretation there are those who use @ana to poin= t to a hierarchical <taxonomy> of many <category> and sub <category> element= s. >>>=20 >>> But maybe I've misunderstood. >>>=20 >>> Best wishes, >>> James >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>> On 05/05/17 12:52, Ioana Galleron wrote: >>>> Dear all, >>>>=20 >>>> I am trying to encode some topical elements in several plays, and I tho= ught about using the couple of tags <seg @ana> and <interp>, as recommended b= y the guidelines; I think I can define a quite stable taxonomy of elements, w= hich I could use to mark up several plays, and several occurrences of some m= otifs in the same play - hence the choice of <interp> rather than simply res= orting to the use of <span>. >>>>=20 >>>> (An example of such elements, for those interested and/ or for clarity s= ake: =C2=AB recognition =C2=BB; =C2=AB husband and wife quarreling =C2=BB; =C2= =AB confrontation of rival women =C2=BB etc.; once again, these are widely u= sed infra-scenes in the French plays of 17th and 18th century I am studying,= so a common typology can be drafted of, and used to consistenly mark up sev= eral plays, by different authors). >>>>=20 >>>> Unfortunately, <seg> does not seem to accept <sp> as a child, nor <sp> <= seg>. Actually, <seg> is accepted only inside <p> or <l> (some of my plays a= re in prose, other in verses). >>>> I can work around it by using the <join> element, pointing to the xml:i= d of each speech, but this is a cumbersome task when the topical element I w= ant to mark runs over dozen of speeches (but still, does not cover the entir= e scene). It would be much easier if I could start a <seg> before the approp= riate <sp> and end it after the last one. >>>>=20 >>>> What am I not doing correctly? What else could I use to label chunks o= f text (of various lengths) after a coherent list of classes? >>>> Best regards, >>>> Ioana Galleron >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> --=20 >>> Dr James Cummings, [email protected] >>> Academic IT Services, University of Oxford >>>=20 >>=20 >=20 >=20 > --=20 > Dr James Cummings, [email protected]=20 > Academic IT Services, University of Oxford --Apple-Mail-3055444B-BD73-4E9A-BF27-23C631AD1BEA Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D= utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div>Hi Iona-- Since you point out that mar= king those complex <join/> @targets is cumbersome, I think we're seeki= ng an easier solution for inline markup. I am using <milestone/> in a p= roject for similar reasons as you indicate here: to indicate a series of som= ething that could start, be interrupted, and end at any level of the structu= ral hierarchy. The system we devised runs like this, so as to accommodate in= terruptions:</div><div id=3D"AppleMailSignature"><br></div><div id=3D"AppleM= ailSignature"><milestone unit=3D"start" ana=3D"yourTopic"/></div><div i= d=3D"AppleMailSignature"><milestone unit=3D"intStart"/> (for the start= of an interruption) </div><div id=3D"AppleMailSignature"><milestone= unit=3D"intEnd"/> (for the end of an interruption and return to th= e phenomenon you are marking)</div><div id=3D"AppleMailSignature"><milest= one unit=3D"end"/> </div><div id=3D"AppleMailSignature"><br></div><d= iv id=3D"AppleMailSignature">The @ana could go on all of those, but in my pr= oject we just set it on the @start, and we wrote some Schematron rules to ma= ke sure we signal the preceding:: and following:: milestone elements in the p= roper order. So, no milestone of @unit=3DintEnd may follow as the first mile= stone after one of @unit=3D"start". I am happy to share the Schematron I wro= te for just those rules, which I first wrote as a separate file and then con= verted into an ODD. I think it's easier to read as a Schematron file, for wh= at it's worth! I suppose what I'm exchanging is one kind of cumbersome for a= nother: if you have a schema that can check your sequence of milestone eleme= nts, your inline markup of something like this can be much easier.</div><div= id=3D"AppleMailSignature"><br></div><div id=3D"AppleMailSignature">Hope thi= s is potentially useful!</div><div id=3D"AppleMailSignature">Elisa</div><div= id=3D"AppleMailSignature"><div><div id=3D"AppleMailSignature"><span style=3D= "background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">--</span></div><div id=3D"AppleM= ailSignature"><span style=3D"background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Elis= a Beshero-Bondar, PhD </span></div><div id=3D"AppleMailSignature"><span= style=3D"background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Director, Center for th= e Digital Text</span></div><div id=3D"AppleMailSignature"><span style=3D"bac= kground-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Associate Professor of English = </span></div><div id=3D"AppleMailSignature"><span style=3D"background-color:= rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">University of Pittsburgh at Greensburg</span></div= ><div id=3D"AppleMailSignature"><span style=3D"background-color: rgba(255, 2= 55, 255, 0);">150 Finoli Drive, Greensburg, PA 15601 USA</span></div><div id= =3D"AppleMailSignature"><span style=3D"font-size: 13pt; background-color: rg= ba(255, 255, 255, 0);">E-mail: <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">ebb8@pi= tt.edu</a> | </span><span style=3D"font-size: 13pt; background-col= or: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Development site: </span><a href=3D"http:/= /newtfire.org/" style=3D"font-size: 13pt; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 2= 55, 0);">http://newtfire.org</a></div><div id=3D"AppleMailSignature"><div><b= r></div></div></div><div><span style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">Typeset by hand on= my iPad</span></div></div><div><br>On May 5, 2017, at 8:28 AM, James Cummin= gs <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]= .UK</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div> =20 <meta content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8" http-equiv=3D"Content-Type"= > =20 =20 <div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix">Hi Ioana,<br> <br> Another approach might be to use <milestone/> to indicate the points at which things change, but I see the attraction for using <join/> as you are, and it can point to @xml:id's at any level. In this case they are all a set run of speeches which any solution would probably work but does it ever happen that one or two speeches break off and are not part of this set of confrontations in the middle? If so then a pointing system like <join/> makes a lot of sense. The output from a query for all the contiguous confrontations would be possible in any of the solutions I think. Asking for the xml:ids of all speeches between two milestones; asking for all the speeches that contain @ana=3D'#Affront_Rivales' where either the next or previous speech also did; or all the targets from a join element. All possible, but depending on the technologies chosen some might be easier than others. (And the join solution is probably easiest from a processing point of view.)<br> <br> Oh, and for the record I wouldn't hesitate to post encoding examples in French (or Latin, or Sumerian, or Japanese, or even Halkomelem if I had any) the TEI is international and so our discussions concerning text on this list should be. My poor French happens to be good enough to read this scene (thanks!) and there are lots of native and fluent French speakers on the list. = (And indeed, in this case it doesn't really matter so much _what_ the text says as how you are choosing to encode it.) I do recognise that asking the questions in English here will get more answers than asking in French, but I'd certainly not want to dissuade people from also asking questions in other languages if they wish.<br> <br> Cordialement,<br> <br> -James<br> <br> <br> On 05/05/17 13:09, Ioana Galleron wrote:<br> </div> <blockquote cite=3D"mid:[email protected]"= type=3D"cite"> <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-= 8"> Hi James, <div class=3D""><br class=3D""> </div> <div class=3D"">Thanks for answering fast!</div> <div class=3D"">I thought about it, but this means, in practice, that when I will seek for =C2=AB confrontations =C2=BB in m= y plays I=E2=80=99ll actually get as many as <sp> marked up, while in fact it is a series of <sp> which constitutes one confrontation; the limits of this topical scene will be more difficult to spot - hence the use of <join>=E2=80=A6</div> <div class=3D"">I copy and paste a bit of a scene thus marked up, but since it is in French, I hesitated to do it the first time round.</div> <div class=3D"">Best,</div> <div class=3D""> <div apple-content-edited=3D"true" class=3D""> <div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""> <div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""> <div class=3D"">Ioana </div> <div class=3D""> <div style=3D"margin: 0px; font-size: 12px; font-family: Helvetica;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: #021da7" clas= s=3D""><interp</span><span style=3D"color: #f9975e" class=3D""> xml:id</span><span style=3D"color: #ff9450" class=3D"">=3D</span><span style=3D"color: #ab4500" class=3D"">"Affront_Rivales"</span><span style=3D= "color: #021da7" class=3D"">></span>Afrrontement de femmes rivales, de caract=C3=A8re oppos=C3=A9.<span sty= le=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""></interp></span></div> </div> <div style=3D"margin: 0px; font-size: 12px; font-family: Helvetica;" class=3D""> <div style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color:= #021da7" class=3D""><div</span><span style=3D"color: #f9975e" class=3D""> type</span><span style=3D"color: #ff9450" class=3D"">=3D</span><span style=3D"color: #ab4500" class=3D"">"scene"</span><span style=3D"color: #f9975e" class=3D""> n</span><span style=3D"color: #ff9450" class=3D"">=3D</span><span style=3D"color: #ab4500" class=3D"">"4"</span><span style=3D"color: #f9975e" class=3D""> xml:id</span><span style=3D"color: #ff9450" class=3D"">=3D</span><span style=3D"color: #ab4500" class=3D"">"III_4"</span><span style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D"">></span><br class=3D""> <sp= an style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""><head></span>SCENE IV<span style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""></head><= /span><br class=3D""> <sp= an style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""><stage></span>CEPHISE, CIDALISE<span style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""></sta= ge></span><br class=3D""> <sp= an style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""><sp</span><span style=3D"color: #f= 9975e" class=3D""> who</span><span style=3D"color: #ff9450" class=3D"">=3D</= span><span style=3D"color: #ab4500" class=3D"">"Cephise"</span><span style=3D= "color: #f9975e" class=3D""> xml:id</span><span style=3D"color: #ff9450" cla= ss=3D"">=3D</span><span style=3D"color: #ab4500" class=3D"">"III_4_1"</span>= <span style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D"">></span><br class=3D""> &n= bsp; <span style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""><speaker></span>CEPHISE= <span style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""><pc></span>.<span style=3D"c= olor: #021da7" class=3D""></pc></speaker></span><br class=3D""> &n= bsp; <span style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""><p></span>Enfin, ma nie= ce, il faut nous s=C3=A9parer, vous partirez demain, s'il vous pla=C3=AE= t,<br class=3D""> &nb= sp; pour aller trouver votre pere; j=E2=80=99ai bien voulu me charger du soin de vous<br clas= s=3D""> &nb= sp; l'apprendre, de crainte que mon mari ne vous le d=C3=AEt avec plus d'aigreur.<span style=3D= "color: #021da7" class=3D""></p></span><br class=3D""> <sp= an style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""></sp></span><br class=3D""> <sp= an style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""><sp</span><span style=3D"color: #f= 9975e" class=3D""> who</span><span style=3D"color: #ff9450" class=3D"">=3D</= span><span style=3D"color: #ab4500" class=3D"">"Cidalise"</span><span style=3D= "color: #f9975e" class=3D""> xml:id</span><span style=3D"color: #ff9450" cla= ss=3D"">=3D</span><span style=3D"color: #ab4500" class=3D"">"III_4_2"</span>= <span style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D"">></span><br class=3D""> &n= bsp; <span style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""><speaker></span>CIDALIS= E<span style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""><pc></span>.<span style=3D"= color: #021da7" class=3D""></pc></speaker></span><br class=3D"">= &n= bsp; <span style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""><p></span>Je re=C3=A7oi= s tous les jours de ma vie, Madame, de nouvelles marques de vos bont=C3=A9s;<b= r class=3D""> &nb= sp; mais, Madame, voudriez-vous bien joindre une gr=C3=A2ce =C3=A0 toutes les obligations que<b= r class=3D""> &nb= sp; je vous ai?<span style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""></p></span><br class=3D""> <sp= an style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""></sp></span><br class=3D""> <sp= an style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""><sp</span><span style=3D"color: #f= 9975e" class=3D""> who</span><span style=3D"color: #ff9450" class=3D"">=3D</= span><span style=3D"color: #ab4500" class=3D"">"Cephise"</span><span style=3D= "color: #f9975e" class=3D""> xml:id</span><span style=3D"color: #ff9450" cla= ss=3D"">=3D</span><span style=3D"color: #ab4500" class=3D"">"III_4_3"</span>= <span style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D"">></span><br class=3D""> &n= bsp; <span style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""><speaker></span>CEPHISE= <span style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""><pc></span>.<span style=3D"c= olor: #021da7" class=3D""></pc></speaker></span><br class=3D""> &n= bsp; <span style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""><p></span>Si c'est quel= que chose qui d=C3=A9pende de moi, ma niece.<span style=3D"color: #021da= 7" class=3D""></p></span><br class=3D""> <sp= an style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""></sp></span><br class=3D""> <sp= an style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""><sp</span><span style=3D"color: #f= 9975e" class=3D""> who</span><span style=3D"color: #ff9450" class=3D"">=3D</= span><span style=3D"color: #ab4500" class=3D"">"Cidalise"</span><span style=3D= "color: #f9975e" class=3D""> xml:id</span><span style=3D"color: #ff9450" cla= ss=3D"">=3D</span><span style=3D"color: #ab4500" class=3D"">"III_4_4"</span>= <span style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D"">></span><br class=3D""> &n= bsp; <span style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""><speaker></span>CIDALIS= E<span style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""><pc></span>.<span style=3D"= color: #021da7" class=3D""></pc></speaker></span><br class=3D"">= &n= bsp; <span style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""><p></span>La chose vous= sera facile, Madame. <span style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""></p&g= t;</span><br class=3D""> <sp= an style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""></sp></span><br class=3D""> <sp= an style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""><sp</span><span style=3D"color: #f= 9975e" class=3D""> who</span><span style=3D"color: #ff9450" class=3D"">=3D</= span><span style=3D"color: #ab4500" class=3D"">"Cephise"</span><span style=3D= "color: #f9975e" class=3D""> xml:id</span><span style=3D"color: #ff9450" cla= ss=3D"">=3D</span><span style=3D"color: #ab4500" class=3D"">"III_4_5"</span>= <span style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D"">></span><br class=3D""> &n= bsp; <span style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""><speaker></span>CEPHISE= <span style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""><pc></span>.<span style=3D"c= olor: #021da7" class=3D""></pc></speaker></span><br class=3D""> &n= bsp; <span style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""><p></span> Ne me priez p= oint surtout, de parler =C3=A0 mon mari pour vous.<span style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""></p></span><br class=3D""> <sp= an style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""></sp></span><br class=3D""> <sp= an style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""><sp</span><span style=3D"color: #f= 9975e" class=3D""> who</span><span style=3D"color: #ff9450" class=3D"">=3D</= span><span style=3D"color: #ab4500" class=3D"">"Cidalise"</span><span style=3D= "color: #f9975e" class=3D""> xml:id</span><span style=3D"color: #ff9450" cla= ss=3D"">=3D</span><span style=3D"color: #ab4500" class=3D"">"III_4_6"</span>= <span style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D"">></span><br class=3D""> &n= bsp; <span style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""><speaker></span>CIDALIS= E<span style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""><pc></span>.<span style=3D"= color: #021da7" class=3D""></pc></speaker></span><br class=3D"">= &n= bsp; <span style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""><p></span>Non, Madame.<= span style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""></p></span><br class=3D""> <sp= an style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""></sp></span><br class=3D""> <sp= an style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""><sp</span><span style=3D"color: #f= 9975e" class=3D""> who</span><span style=3D"color: #ff9450" class=3D"">=3D</= span><span style=3D"color: #ab4500" class=3D"">"Cephise"</span><span style=3D= "color: #f9975e" class=3D""> xml:id</span><span style=3D"color: #ff9450" cla= ss=3D"">=3D</span><span style=3D"color: #ab4500" class=3D"">"III_4_7"</span>= <span style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D"">></span><br class=3D""> &n= bsp; <span style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""><speaker></span>CEPHISE= <span style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""><pc></span>.<span style=3D"c= olor: #021da7" class=3D""></pc></speaker></span><br class=3D""> &n= bsp; <span style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""><p></span>Cela seroit i= nutile.<span style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""></p></span><br class=3D= ""> <sp= an style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""></sp></span><br class=3D""> <sp= an style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""><sp</span><span style=3D"color: #f= 9975e" class=3D""> who</span><span style=3D"color: #ff9450" class=3D"">=3D</= span><span style=3D"color: #ab4500" class=3D"">"Cidalise"</span><span style=3D= "color: #f9975e" class=3D""> xml:id</span><span style=3D"color: #ff9450" cla= ss=3D"">=3D</span><span style=3D"color: #ab4500" class=3D"">"III_4_8"</span>= <span style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D"">></span><br class=3D""> &n= bsp; <span style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""><speaker></span>CIDALIS= E<span style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""><pc></span>.<span style=3D"= color: #021da7" class=3D""></pc></speaker></span><br class=3D"">= &n= bsp; <span style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""><p></span>J'en suis per= suad=C3=A9e, Madame.<span style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""></p>= ;</span><br class=3D""> <sp= an style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""></sp></span><br class=3D""> <sp= an style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""><sp</span><span style=3D"color: #f= 9975e" class=3D""> who</span><span style=3D"color: #ff9450" class=3D"">=3D</= span><span style=3D"color: #ab4500" class=3D"">"Cephise"</span><span style=3D= "color: #f9975e" class=3D""> xml:id</span><span style=3D"color: #ff9450" cla= ss=3D"">=3D</span><span style=3D"color: #ab4500" class=3D"">"III_4_9"</span>= <span style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D"">></span><br class=3D""> &n= bsp; <span style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""><speaker></span>CEPHISE= <span style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""><pc></span>.<span style=3D"c= olor: #021da7" class=3D""></pc></speaker></span><br class=3D""> &n= bsp; <span style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""><p></span>Il ne veut po= int souffrir que vous soyez davantage chez lui.<span style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""></p></span><br class=3D""> <sp= an style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""></sp></span><br class=3D""> <sp= an style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""><sp</span><span style=3D"color: #f= 9975e" class=3D""> who</span><span style=3D"color: #ff9450" class=3D"">=3D</= span><span style=3D"color: #ab4500" class=3D"">"Cidalise"</span><span style=3D= "color: #f9975e" class=3D""> xml:id</span><span style=3D"color: #ff9450" cla= ss=3D"">=3D</span><span style=3D"color: #ab4500" class=3D"">"III_4_10"</span= ><span style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D"">></span><br class=3D""> &n= bsp; <span style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""><speaker></span>CIDALIS= E<span style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""><pc></span>.<span style=3D"= color: #021da7" class=3D""></pc></speaker></span><br class=3D"">= &n= bsp; <span style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""><p></span>Je ne veux po= int y demeurer malgr=C3=A9 lui, ni malgr=C3=A9 vous, Madame.<span style=3D= "color: #021da7" class=3D""></p></span><br class=3D""> <sp= an style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""></sp></span><br class=3D""> <sp= an style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""><sp</span><span style=3D"color: #f= 9975e" class=3D""> who</span><span style=3D"color: #ff9450" class=3D"">=3D</= span><span style=3D"color: #ab4500" class=3D"">"Cephise"</span><span style=3D= "color: #f9975e" class=3D""> xml:id</span><span style=3D"color: #ff9450" cla= ss=3D"">=3D</span><span style=3D"color: #ab4500" class=3D"">"III_4_11"</span= ><span style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D"">></span><br class=3D""> &n= bsp; <span style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""><speaker></span>CEPHISE= <span style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""><pc></span>.<span style=3D"c= olor: #021da7" class=3D""></pc></speaker></span><br class=3D""> &n= bsp; <span style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""><p></span>Que voulez-vo= us donc que je fasse?<span style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""></p>= </span><br class=3D""> <sp= an style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""></sp></span><br class=3D""> <sp= an style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""><sp</span><span style=3D"color: #f= 9975e" class=3D""> who</span><span style=3D"color: #ff9450" class=3D"">=3D</= span><span style=3D"color: #ab4500" class=3D"">"Cidalise"</span><span style=3D= "color: #f9975e" class=3D""> xml:id</span><span style=3D"color: #ff9450" cla= ss=3D"">=3D</span><span style=3D"color: #ab4500" class=3D"">"III_4_12"</span= ><span style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D"">></span><br class=3D""> &n= bsp; <span style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""><speaker></span>CIDALIS= E<span style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""><pc></span>.<span style=3D"= color: #021da7" class=3D""></pc></speaker></span><br class=3D"">= &n= bsp; <span style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""><p></span>Permettre que= je puisse parler =C3=A0 mon oncle avant que de le quitter.<span styl= e=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""></p></span><br class=3D""> <sp= an style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""></sp></span><br class=3D""> <sp= an style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""><sp</span><span style=3D"color: #f= 9975e" class=3D""> who</span><span style=3D"color: #ff9450" class=3D"">=3D</= span><span style=3D"color: #ab4500" class=3D"">"Cephise"</span><span style=3D= "color: #f9975e" class=3D""> xml:id</span><span style=3D"color: #ff9450" cla= ss=3D"">=3D</span><span style=3D"color: #ab4500" class=3D"">"III_4_13"</span= ><span style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D"">></span><br class=3D""> &n= bsp; <span style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""><speaker></span>CEPHISE= <span style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""><pc></span>.<span style=3D"c= olor: #021da7" class=3D""></pc></speaker></span><br class=3D""> &n= bsp; <span style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""><p></span>Non, ma niece= , je ne vous le conseille pas, il est dans un trop grand<br class=3D"">= &nb= sp; emportement contre vous.<span style=3D"color: #021da7" cla= ss=3D""></p></span><br class=3D""> <sp= an style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""></sp></span><br class=3D""> <sp= an style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""><sp</span><span style=3D"color: #f= 9975e" class=3D""> who</span><span style=3D"color: #ff9450" class=3D"">=3D</= span><span style=3D"color: #ab4500" class=3D"">"Cidalise"</span><span style=3D= "color: #f9975e" class=3D""> xml:id</span><span style=3D"color: #ff9450" cla= ss=3D"">=3D</span><span style=3D"color: #ab4500" class=3D"">"III_4_14"</span= ><span style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D"">></span><br class=3D""> &n= bsp; <span style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""><speaker></span>CIDALIS= E<span style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""><pc></span>.<span style=3D"= color: #021da7" class=3D""></pc></speaker></span><br class=3D"">= &n= bsp; <span style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""><p></span>Mais, au moin= s, ne puis-je savoir les crimes dont on m'accuse?<span style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""></p></span><br class=3D""> <sp= an style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""></sp></span><br class=3D""> <sp= an style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""><sp</span><span style=3D"color: #f= 9975e" class=3D""> who</span><span style=3D"color: #ff9450" class=3D"">=3D</= span><span style=3D"color: #ab4500" class=3D"">"Cephise"</span><span style=3D= "color: #f9975e" class=3D""> xml:id</span><span style=3D"color: #ff9450" cla= ss=3D"">=3D</span><span style=3D"color: #ab4500" class=3D"">"III_4_15"</span= ><span style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D"">></span><br class=3D""> &n= bsp; <span style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""><speaker></span>CEPHISE= <span style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""><pc></span>.<span style=3D"c= olor: #021da7" class=3D""></pc></speaker></span><br class=3D""> &n= bsp; <span style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""><p></span>Eh, mon Dieu,= ma niece, rendez-vous un peu de justice! Pour moi, je vous crois<br c= lass=3D""> &nb= sp; la plus innocente personne du monde; mais en v=C3=A9rit=C3=A9 les apparences sont<br cla= ss=3D""> &nb= sp; terriblement contre vous.<span style=3D"color: #021da7" cl= ass=3D""></p></span><br class=3D""> <sp= an style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""></sp></span><br class=3D""> <sp= an style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""><sp</span><span style=3D"color: #f= 9975e" class=3D""> who</span><span style=3D"color: #ff9450" class=3D"">=3D</= span><span style=3D"color: #ab4500" class=3D"">"Cidalise"</span><span style=3D= "color: #f9975e" class=3D""> xml:id</span><span style=3D"color: #ff9450" cla= ss=3D"">=3D</span><span style=3D"color: #ab4500" class=3D"">"III_4_16"</span= ><span style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D"">></span><br class=3D""> &n= bsp; <span style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""><speaker></span>CIDALIS= E<span style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""><pc></span>.<span style=3D"= color: #021da7" class=3D""></pc></speaker></span><br class=3D"">= &n= bsp; <span style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""><p></span>Il est ais=C3= =A9 d'empoisonner les choses les plus innocentes: mais cependant...<span sty= le=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""></p></span><br class=3D""> <sp= an style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""></sp></span><br class=3D""> <sp= an style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""><join</span><span style=3D"color: #= f9975e" class=3D""> target</span><span style=3D"color: #ff9450" class=3D"">=3D= </span><span style=3D"color: #ab4500" class=3D"">"#III_4_1 #III_4_2 #III_4_3 #III_4_4 #III_4_5 #III_4_6 #III_4_7 #III_4_8 #III_4_9 #III_4_10"</span><span style=3D"color:= #f9975e" class=3D""> ana</span><span style=3D"color: #ff9450" class=3D"">=3D= </span><span style=3D"color: #ab4500" class=3D"">"#Affront_Rivales"</span><s= pan style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D"">/></span><br class=3D""> <sp= an style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D""><sp</span><span style=3D"color: #f= 9975e" class=3D""> who</span><span style=3D"color: #ff9450" class=3D"">=3D</= span><span style=3D"color: #ab4500" class=3D"">"Cephise"</span><span style=3D= "color: #f9975e" class=3D""> xml:id</span><span style=3D"color: #ff9450" cla= ss=3D"">=3D</span><span style=3D"color: #ab4500" class=3D"">"III_4_17"</span= ><span style=3D"color: #021da7" class=3D"">></span></div> </div> <div class=3D"">(the scene continus after this, but the conversatio moves to other topics).</div> </div> </div> <br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"> <br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"> </div> <br class=3D""> <div> <blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""> <div class=3D"">Le 5 mai 2017 =C3=A0 13:01, James Cummings <<= a moz-do-not-send=3D"true" href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" class=3D= "">[email protected]</a>> a =C3=A9crit :</div> <br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"> <div class=3D""><br class=3D""> Hi Ioana,<br class=3D""> <br class=3D""> I might be misunderstanding without a clear example, but if the entirety of the speech is relating to a particular interpretation then why not use the @ana attribute on the speech itself? Then where the interpretation stops or changes mid-speech then mark it using <seg> inside the paragraph or verse lines. <seg> is definitely only intended for phrase-level segments of text. (<ab> is the equivalent for paragraph-like anonymous blocks.)<br class=3D""> <br class=3D""> <sp ana=3D"#confrontation"><br class=3D""> <p>Some text</p><br class=3D""> </sp><br class=3D""> <sp ana=3D"#confrontation"><br class=3D""> <l>Some verse continuing the confrontation</l><br c= lass=3D""> </sp><br class=3D""> <sp><br class=3D""> <p><seg ana=3D"#confrontation">Here some confrontation</seg> <seg ana=3D"#somethingElse">a different segment of interpretation</seg></p><br class=3D""> </sp><br class=3D""> <br class=3D""> These can indeed point to <interp> elements as you note, those for some forms of more taxonomical interpretation there are those who use @ana to point to a hierarchical <taxonomy> of many <category> and sub <category> elements.<br class=3D""> <br class=3D""> But maybe I've misunderstood.<br class=3D""> <br class=3D""> Best wishes,<br class=3D""> James<br class=3D""> <br class=3D""> <br class=3D""> On 05/05/17 12:52, Ioana Galleron wrote:<br class=3D""> <blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"">Dear all,<br class=3D""> <br class=3D""> I am trying to encode some topical elements in several plays, and I thought about using the couple of tags <seg @ana> and <interp>, as recommended by the guidelines; I think I can define a quite stable taxonomy of elements, which I could use to mark up several plays, and several occurrences of some motifs in the same play - hence the choice of <interp> rather than simply resorting to the use of <span>.<br c= lass=3D""> <br class=3D""> (An example of such elements, for those interested and/ or for clarity sake: =C2=AB recognition =C2=BB; =C2=AB husba= nd and wife quarreling =C2=BB; =C2=AB confrontation of rival women =C2=BB= etc.; once again, these are widely used infra-scenes in the French plays of 17th and 18th century I am studying, so a common typology can be drafted of, and used to consistenly mark up several plays, by different authors).<br class=3D""> <br class=3D""> Unfortunately, <seg> does not seem to accept <sp> as a child, nor <sp> <seg>. Actually, <seg> is accepted only inside <p> or <l> (some of my plays are in prose, other in verses).<br class=3D""> I can work around it by using the <join> element, pointing to the xml:id of each speech, but this is a cumbersome task when the topical element I want to mark runs over dozen of speeches (but still, does not cover the entire scene). It would be much easier if I could start a <seg> before the appropriate <sp> and end it after the last one.<br class=3D""> <br class=3D""> What am I not doing correctly? What else could I use t= o label chunks of text (of various lengths) after a coherent list of classes?<br class=3D""> Best regards,<br class=3D""> Ioana Galleron<br class=3D""> <br class=3D""> <br class=3D""> </blockquote> <br class=3D""> <br class=3D""> -- <br class=3D""> Dr James Cummings, <a moz-do-not-send=3D"true" href=3D"mailto:= [email protected]" class=3D"">[email protected]</a><br cla= ss=3D""> Academic IT Services, University of Oxford<br class=3D""> <br class=3D""> </div> </blockquote> </div> <br class=3D""> </div> </blockquote> <br> <p><br> </p> <pre class=3D"moz-signature" cols=3D"65">--=20 Dr James Cummings, <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"mailto:Jame= [email protected]">[email protected]</a>=20 Academic IT Services, University of Oxford </pre> =20 </div></blockquote></body></html>= --Apple-Mail-3055444B-BD73-4E9A-BF27-23C631AD1BEA--