FW: Dictionaries, practical question
Daniel STOEKL BEN EZRA <[email protected]> Sun, 15 Jan 2017 21:15:46 +0000
| Newsgroups | gmane.text.tei.general |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <[email protected]> |
--_000_0EE97F24F122664FB3EC03E1750C76BAC071FCBAMbx1mmshunivaix_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear colleagues May I ask those who have tried BaseX AND eXist what are the advantages of u= sing eXist compared to BaseX or, vice versa, the advantages of BaseX compar= ed to eXist? What can you do in eXist which you cannot do in BaseX or the o= ther way round? Many thanks Daniel ________________________________ From: TEI (Text Encoding Initiative) public discussion list [TEI-L@LISTSERV= .BROWN.EDU] on behalf of Christian Gr=FCn [[email protected]] Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 12:10 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Dictionaries, practical question Hi Charly, sorry for the confusion. I was simply stupid enough to pass my mail on back= to you and the list while it was rather meant to be forwarded to some othe= r guys in the TEI area. ;) I am glad to hear that VLE benefits from BaseX! Cheers Christian Am 13.01.2017 11:43 schrieb "M=F6rth, Karlheinz" <[email protected].= at<mailto:[email protected]>>: You are right, and to be precise, it should be "makes heavily use of the Ba= seX database" or "builds on the BaseX database" We actually see in the move away from traditional architectures (CLIENT - P= HP/PERL/PYTHON - relational database) towards REST in combination with Base= X an important step forward which is due - among others - to the fact that = BaseX is so straightforward to set up. The 'monolingual' XML-only architect= ure (XSLT, XML SCHEMA, XQuery) turned out to be a big advantage. Getting ot= hers to create a functioning environment has become much more feasible like= this. BaseX also proved to be very efficient in querying and stable during= operation. All the best Charly -----Original Message----- From: Christian Gr=FCn [mailto:[email protected]<mailto:chris= [email protected]>] Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 4:42 PM To: M=F6rth, Karlheinz <[email protected]<mailto:Karlheinz.Moerth= @oeaw.ac.at>> Cc: tei-l <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: Re: Dictionaries, practical question VLE (dictionary writing system), =BBrecent versions are tightly integrated with the BaseX=AB=85 ____________________________________ On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 4:31 PM, M=F6rth, Karlheinz <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > Hi Paul, > > There is an incomplete but helpful list on Wikipedia: > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dictionary_writing_system > > Are you aware of the following very interesting document? It was created = as part of the ENEL (European Network of e-Lexicography) Cost Action by ver= y experienced experts in the field (Abel, Krek, Tiberius): Bibliography =96= Dictionary Writing Systems (DWS) & related software > http://www.elexicography.eu/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Bibliography_DWS_C= QS_v7_web.pdf > > The Viennese Lexicographic Editor (VLE) is a Windows standalone applicati= on which we have been developing for quite some time now. Several smaller d= ictionaries were done with it. The most recent one is: > https://basex-dev.eos.arz.oeaw.ac.at/dict_api/tunico/tunis_dict__v002.htm= l (prod. server; link will change) > > Others you can find on the Vienna-Corpus-of-Arabic-Varieties (VICAV) webs= ite: > https://vicav.acdh.oeaw.ac.at > > VLE is a general-purpose XML editor enhanced by functionalities typically= needed in editing lexical data. We have compiled all our dictionaries in T= EI. If you want to see details of the encoding, have a look here: > https://clarin.oeaw.ac.at/lrp/dict-gate/docs.html > > VLE makes use of various XML technologies, e.g. XSLT, XPath, XQuery. It h= as a number of useful features which were needed in our projects (validatio= n against XML Schema, visualisation through customizable XSLT in all parts = of the system, sound recording etc). Recent versions are tightly integrated= with the BaseX database which makes it easy to set up local instances. We = also have implemented versioning. It comes with a tokenEditor that allows t= o furnish corpora with dictionary IDs. Recently we have been working on an = Application Creator module which helps to create web applications by means = of a very simple wizard. > > Due to time pressure, VLE is still scarcely documented although we have b= een working on this. It is freely available. If you want to try it, get in = touch. I am happy to help. VLE is an ongoing project. > > All the best > > Charly > ________________________________________________ > Karlheinz Moerth > Austrian Centre for Digital Humanities > Austrian Academy of Sciences > Sonnenfelsgasse 19/2nd floor > 1010 Wien > Tel: +43 1 51581-2220<tel:%2B43%201%2051581-2220> > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: TEI (Text Encoding Initiative) public discussion list [mailto:TEI-L= @LISTSERV.BROWN.EDU<mailto:[email protected]>] On Behalf Of Piotr Ba= nski > Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2017 11:22 PM > To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> > Subject: Re: Dictionaries, practical question > > I have worked with FLEx and FLEx-generated XML, first preparing a large > corpus-derived dictionary for FLEx ingestion and then iterating on that. > It can be done with only a minor headache as you learn the underlying > format and then e.g. discover the differences between particular versions= . > > I don't really see an ontological platform for comparing FLEx vs. TEI. > FLEx is a 'machine`, TEI is a metaformat. I'd take FLEx for > lexicographic work and then worry about potential export to TEI (or > rather transformation from FLEx export). Or even attempt to go both > ways, if the initial data are in TEI, but then, maintaining references > could be a challenge. > > I have planned to check out the Viennese Lexicographic Editor[1], and > even managed to run it under Linux, but got stuck afterwards. It is > definitely worth trying for some lexicographic tasks, especially when > it's gotten more documentation. > > [1] http://www.oeaw.ac.at/acdh/de/vle > > Good luck, > > Piotr > > > On 01/11/2017 10:55 PM, Patrick Sahle wrote: >> >> I had a similar discussion only today: a colleague wants to create from >> a 18th century manuscript a multi language lexicon using FieldWorks/FLEx >> (http://fieldworks.sil.org/). I tried to convince him on the advantages >> using TEI would have but didn't get through. I see his arguments for an >> easy to use tool that is established in his field. But I am concerned >> about the loss of information about the material, visual and structural >> aspects of the documents. We are now discussing into two directions: >> - would it be possible to convert from FLEx to (sufficiently information >> rich) TEI in the end? Mainly for interoperability reasons ... >> - would it be wise to go from TEI to FLEx (keeping more information from >> the documents, but working without an easy editing tool)? >> >> Any experiences on this around? >> >> Best, Patrick >> >> Am 11.01.2017 um 16:37 schrieb Paul Schaffner: >>> Hi all, this is not strictly TEI, as you'll see, but I suspect there ar= e >>> a number of lexicographers here. I was asked yesterday by someone >>> compiling a Latin dictionary if there was a standard (perhaps >>> database-type) piece of application software in which to compile, edit, >>> and search it. He is (sigh) using Microsoft Word at the moment, and has >>> rejected the usual filemaker-type databases as not sufficiently >>> supportive of word-processor-type formatting (multiple languages and >>> fonts, etc.) I of course pointed out that the chief desideratum for >>> future functionality was to distinguish unambiguously between different >>> structurally distinct pieces of each entry; that XML was a good vehicle >>> for recording the sort of mixture of fielded, normalized and free-form >>> text typical of dictionaries; that XML could be entered, searched, and >>> edited in any number of applications, from Access forms to simple text >>> editors; and that TEI did have a functional dictionaries module which >>> was worth considering. I am investigating further as to what he actuall= y >>> hopes to do with the data, which makes a big difference. >>> >>> But in the meantime: is there in fact a popular software choice amongst >>> working lexicographers? (To the extent that anything used by >>> lexicographers could be called 'popular'!) >>> >>> pfs >>> >> >> >> -- >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Apl. Prof. Dr. Patrick Sahle >> Koordinierungsstelle Digital Humanities der Nordrhein-Westf=E4lischen >> Akademie der Wissenschaften >> Cologne Center for eHumanities (CCeH) <http://www.cceh.uni-koeln.de/> >> Data Center for the Humanities <http://www.dch.uni-koeln.de/> >> DiXiT ITN <http://www.dixit.uni-koeln.de/> >> Institut f=FCr Dokumentologie und Editorik <http://www.i-d-e.de> >> >> Postanschrift: Cologne Center for eHumanities (CCeH), Universit=E4t zu >> K=F6ln, Albertus-Magnus-Platz, D-50923 K=F6ln >> B=FCro: Meister-Ekkehart-Str. 11, Raum 2.04; Telefon: +49 - (0)221 - 470= 3894<tel:%2B49%20-%20%280%29221%20-%20470%203894> > > -- > Piotr Ba=F1ski, Ph.D. > Senior Researcher, > Institut f=FCr Deutsche Sprache, > R5 6-13 > 68-161 Mannheim, Germany --_000_0EE97F24F122664FB3EC03E1750C76BAC071FCBAMbx1mmshunivaix_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html dir=3D"ltr"> <head> <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dwindows-1= 250"> <style type=3D"text/css" id=3D"owaParaStyle">=0A= <!--=0A= p=0A= {margin-top:0;=0A= margin-bottom:0}=0A= -->=0A= P {margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;}</style> </head> <body fpstyle=3D"1" ocsi=3D"0"> <div style=3D"direction: ltr;font-family: Tahoma;color: #000000;font-size: = 10pt;">Dear colleagues<br> <div style=3D"font-family: Times New Roman; color: #000000; font-size: 16px= "> <div> <div style=3D"direction:ltr; font-family:Tahoma; color:#000000; font-size:1= 0pt">May I ask those who have tried BaseX AND eXist what are the advantages= of using eXist compared to BaseX or, vice versa, the advantages of BaseX c= ompared to eXist? What can you do in eXist which you cannot do in BaseX or the other way round?<br> Many thanks<br> Daniel<br> <div style=3D"font-family:Times New Roman; color:#000000; font-size:16px"> <hr tabindex=3D"-1"> <div id=3D"divRpF94742" style=3D"direction:ltr"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#= 000000" face=3D"Tahoma"><b>From:</b> TEI (Text Encoding Initiative) public = discussion list [[email protected]] on behalf of Christian Gr=FCn [c= [email protected]]<br> <b>Sent:</b> Friday, January 13, 2017 12:10 PM<br> <b>To:</b> [email protected]<br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: Dictionaries, practical question<br> </font><br> </div> <div></div> <div> <div dir=3D"auto"> <div> <div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"font-family:sans-serif; font-size:13.696px">Hi C= harly,</div> <div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"font-family:sans-serif; font-size:13.696px"><br> </div> <div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"font-family:sans-serif; font-size:13.696px">sorr= y for the confusion. I was simply stupid enough to pass my mail on back to = you and the list while it was rather meant to be forwarded to some other gu= ys in the TEI area. ;) I am glad to hear that VLE benefits from BaseX!</div> <div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"font-family:sans-serif; font-size:13.696px"><br> </div> <div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"font-family:sans-serif; font-size:13.696px">Chee= rs</div> <div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"font-family:sans-serif; font-size:13.696px">Chri= stian</div> <div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"font-family:sans-serif; font-size:13.696px"><br> </div> <div dir=3D"auto"><br> </div> <br> <div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br> <div class=3D"gmail_quote">Am 13.01.2017 11:43 schrieb "M=F6rth, Karlh= einz" <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_bl= ank">[email protected]</a>>:<br type=3D"attribution"> <blockquote class=3D"quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex; border-left:1px #cc= c solid; padding-left:1ex"> You are right, and to be precise, it should be "makes heavily use of t= he BaseX database" or "builds on the BaseX database"<br> <br> We actually see in the move away from traditional architectures (CLIENT - P= HP/PERL/PYTHON - relational database) towards REST in combination with Base= X an important step forward which is due - among others - to the fact that = BaseX is so straightforward to set up. The 'monolingual' XML-only architecture (XSLT, XML SCHEMA, XQuery) tur= ned out to be a big advantage. Getting others to create a functioning envir= onment has become much more feasible like this. BaseX also proved to be ver= y efficient in querying and stable during operation.<br> <br> All the best<br> <br> Charly<br> <div class=3D"elided-text"><br> -----Original Message-----<br> From: Christian Gr=FCn [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:christian.gruen@uni-konsta= nz.de" target=3D"_blank">christian.gruen@uni-<wbr>konstanz.de</a>]<br> Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 4:42 PM<br> To: M=F6rth, Karlheinz <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" t= arget=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>><br> Cc: tei-l <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank"= >[email protected]</a>><br> Subject: Re: Dictionaries, practical question<br> <br> VLE (dictionary writing system), =BBrecent versions are tightly<br> integrated with the BaseX=AB=85<br> ______________________________<wbr>______<br> <br> On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 4:31 PM, M=F6rth, Karlheinz<br> <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">Karlhe= [email protected]</a>> wrote:<br> > Hi Paul,<br> ><br> > There is an incomplete but helpful list on Wikipedia:<br> > <a href=3D"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dictionary_writing_system" re= l=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank"> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/<wbr>Dictionary_writing_system</a><br> ><br> > Are you aware of the following very interesting document? It was creat= ed as part of the ENEL (European Network of e-Lexicography) Cost Action by = very experienced experts in the field (Abel, Krek, Tiberius): Bibliography = =96Dictionary Writing Systems (DWS) & related software<br> > <a href=3D"http://www.elexicography.eu/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Bibl= iography_DWS_CQS_v7_web.pdf" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank"> http://www.elexicography.eu/<wbr>wp-content/uploads/2015/04/<wbr>Bibliograp= hy_DWS_CQS_v7_web.<wbr>pdf</a><br> ><br> > The Viennese Lexicographic Editor (VLE) is a Windows standalone applic= ation which we have been developing for quite some time now. Several smalle= r dictionaries were done with it. The most recent one is:<br> > <a href=3D"https://basex-dev.eos.arz.oeaw.ac.at/dict_api/tunico/tunis_= dict__v002.html" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank"> https://basex-dev.eos.arz.<wbr>oeaw.ac.at/dict_api/tunico/<wbr>tunis_dict__= v002.html</a> (prod. server; link will change)<br> ><br> > Others you can find on the Vienna-Corpus-of-Arabic-<wbr>Varieties (VIC= AV) website:<br> > <a href=3D"https://vicav.acdh.oeaw.ac.at" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D= "_blank">https://vicav.acdh.oeaw.ac.at</a><br> ><br> > VLE is a general-purpose XML editor enhanced by functionalities typica= lly needed in editing lexical data. We have compiled all our dictionaries i= n TEI. If you want to see details of the encoding, have a look here:<br> > <a href=3D"https://clarin.oeaw.ac.at/lrp/dict-gate/docs.html" rel=3D"n= oreferrer" target=3D"_blank"> https://clarin.oeaw.ac.at/lrp/<wbr>dict-gate/docs.html</a><br> ><br> > VLE makes use of various XML technologies, e.g. XSLT, XPath, XQuery. I= t has a number of useful features which were needed in our projects (valida= tion against XML Schema, visualisation through customizable XSLT in all par= ts of the system, sound recording etc). Recent versions are tightly integrated with the BaseX database which makes= it easy to set up local instances. We also have implemented versioning. It= comes with a tokenEditor that allows to furnish corpora with dictionary ID= s. Recently we have been working on an Application Creator module which helps to create web applications by= means of a very simple wizard.<br> ><br> > Due to time pressure, VLE is still scarcely documented although we hav= e been working on this. It is freely available. If you want to try it, get = in touch. I am happy to help. VLE is an ongoing project.<br> ><br> > All the best<br> ><br> > Charly<br> > ______________________________<wbr>__________________<br> > Karlheinz Moerth<br> > Austrian Centre for Digital Humanities<br> > Austrian Academy of Sciences<br> > Sonnenfelsgasse 19/2nd floor<br> > 1010 Wien<br> > Tel: <a href=3D"tel:%2B43%201%2051581-2220" value=3D"+431515812220= " target=3D"_blank"> +43 1 51581-2220</a><br> ><br> ><br> ><br> > -----Original Message-----<br> > From: TEI (Text Encoding Initiative) public discussion list [mailto:<a= href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">TEI-L@LISTSERV.= BROWN.<wbr>EDU</a>] On Behalf Of Piotr Banski<br> > Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2017 11:22 PM<br> > To: <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">TEI-= [email protected]</a><br> > Subject: Re: Dictionaries, practical question<br> ><br> > I have worked with FLEx and FLEx-generated XML, first preparing a larg= e<br> > corpus-derived dictionary for FLEx ingestion and then iterating on tha= t.<br> > It can be done with only a minor headache as you learn the underlying<= br> > format and then e.g. discover the differences between particular versi= ons.<br> ><br> > I don't really see an ontological platform for comparing FLEx vs. TEI.= <br> > FLEx is a 'machine`, TEI is a metaformat. I'd take FLEx for<br> > lexicographic work and then worry about potential export to TEI (or<br= > > rather transformation from FLEx export). Or even attempt to go both<br= > > ways, if the initial data are in TEI, but then, maintaining references= <br> > could be a challenge.<br> ><br> > I have planned to check out the Viennese Lexicographic Editor[1], and<= br> > even managed to run it under Linux, but got stuck afterwards. It is<br= > > definitely worth trying for some lexicographic tasks, especially when<= br> > it's gotten more documentation.<br> ><br> > [1] <a href=3D"http://www.oeaw.ac.at/acdh/de/vle" rel=3D"noreferrer" t= arget=3D"_blank"> http://www.oeaw.ac.at/acdh/de/<wbr>vle</a><br> ><br> > Good luck,<br> ><br> > Piotr<br> ><br> ><br> > On 01/11/2017 10:55 PM, Patrick Sahle wrote:<br> >><br> >> I had a similar discussion only today: a colleague wants to create= from<br> >> a 18th century manuscript a multi language lexicon using FieldWork= s/FLEx<br> >> (<a href=3D"http://fieldworks.sil.org/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target= =3D"_blank">http://fieldworks.sil.org/</a>). I tried to convince him on the= advantages<br> >> using TEI would have but didn't get through. I see his arguments f= or an<br> >> easy to use tool that is established in his field. But I am concer= ned<br> >> about the loss of information about the material, visual and struc= tural<br> >> aspects of the documents. We are now discussing into two direction= s:<br> >> - would it be possible to convert from FLEx to (sufficiently infor= mation<br> >> rich) TEI in the end? Mainly for interoperability reasons ...<br> >> - would it be wise to go from TEI to FLEx (keeping more informatio= n from<br> >> the documents, but working without an easy editing tool)?<br> >><br> >> Any experiences on this around?<br> >><br> >> Best, Patrick<br> >><br> >> Am 11.01.2017 um 16:37 schrieb Paul Schaffner:<br> >>> Hi all, this is not strictly TEI, as you'll see, but I suspect= there are<br> >>> a number of lexicographers here. I was asked yesterday by some= one<br> >>> compiling a Latin dictionary if there was a standard (perhaps<= br> >>> database-type) piece of application software in which to compi= le, edit,<br> >>> and search it. He is (sigh) using Microsoft Word at the moment= , and has<br> >>> rejected the usual filemaker-type databases as not sufficientl= y<br> >>> supportive of word-processor-type formatting (multiple languag= es and<br> >>> fonts, etc.) I of course pointed out that the chief desideratu= m for<br> >>> future functionality was to distinguish unambiguously between = different<br> >>> structurally distinct pieces of each entry; that XML was a goo= d vehicle<br> >>> for recording the sort of mixture of fielded, normalized and f= ree-form<br> >>> text typical of dictionaries; that XML could be entered, searc= hed, and<br> >>> edited in any number of applications, from Access forms to sim= ple text<br> >>> editors; and that TEI did have a functional dictionaries modul= e which<br> >>> was worth considering. I am investigating further as to what h= e actually<br> >>> hopes to do with the data, which makes a big difference.<br> >>><br> >>> But in the meantime: is there in fact a popular software choic= e amongst<br> >>> working lexicographers? (To the extent that anything used by<b= r> >>> lexicographers could be called 'popular'!)<br> >>><br> >>> pfs<br> >>><br> >><br> >><br> >> --<br> >> ------------------------------<wbr>------------------------------<= wbr>------------<br> >> Apl. Prof. Dr. Patrick Sahle<br> >> Koordinierungsstelle Digital Humanities der Nordrhein-Westf=E4lisc= hen<br> >> Akademie der Wissenschaften<br> >> Cologne Center for eHumanities (CCeH) <<a href=3D"http://www.cc= eh.uni-koeln.de/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.cceh.uni-= koeln.de/</a><wbr>><br> >> Data Center for the Humanities <<a href=3D"http://www.dch.uni-k= oeln.de/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.dch.uni-koeln.de/= </a>><br> >> DiXiT ITN <<a href=3D"http://www.dixit.uni-koeln.de/" rel=3D"no= referrer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.dixit.uni-koeln.<wbr>de/</a>><br> >> Institut f=FCr Dokumentologie und Editorik <<a href=3D"http://w= ww.i-d-e.de" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.i-d-e.de</a>&g= t;<br> >><br> >> Postanschrift: Cologne Center for eHumanities (CCeH), Universit=E4= t zu<br> >> K=F6ln, Albertus-Magnus-Platz, D-50923 K=F6ln<br> >> B=FCro: Meister-Ekkehart-Str. 11, Raum 2.04; Telefon: <a href=3D"t= el:%2B49%20-%20%280%29221%20-%20470%203894" value=3D"+492214703894" tar= get=3D"_blank"> +49 - (0)221 - 470 3894</a><br> ><br> > --<br> > Piotr Ba=F1ski, Ph.D.<br> > Senior Researcher,<br> > Institut f=FCr Deutsche Sprache,<br> > R5 6-13<br> > 68-161 Mannheim, Germany<br> </div> </blockquote> </div> <br> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </body> </html> --_000_0EE97F24F122664FB3EC03E1750C76BAC071FCBAMbx1mmshunivaix_--