Re: Tamil Sri / Shri

Please read
http://www.araichchi.net/kanini/unicode/proposal/proposal_to_encode_sri_in_unicod.htm

to see the many possible interpretations.

sRivas

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bala" <[email protected]>
To: "'James Kass'" <[email protected]>; "'Bala'" 
<[email protected]>; "'Unicode Mailing List'" <[email protected]>; 
<[email protected]>
Sent: 04 November 2007 15:15
Subject: RE: Tamil Sri / Shri


James Kass -----------------
This ligature shrii is the form appearing at the top of Bala's exhibit
"1938-page1.jpg".

It can be encoded two ways,
 0BB6 0BCD 0BB0 0BC0 - new way
 0BB8 0BCD 0BB0 0BC0 - old way
-----------------------
I guess it must be encoded only from the new way. Using ஶ. Please refer the 
text1 and text2 images. These are from two Grantha books. I guess no one has 
any doubts that this shri/sri from Grantha scripts.
But I do not know whether ஶ pronounced as sa or sha. I am attaching a image 
(ref1) from A Primer in Grantha characters - K. Venugopalan's book which 
might help to identify the phonetics between ஶ and ஸ

From the Grantha books which I have (less than 10) only this sri/shri form 
is available. But need more searching.


James Kass -----------------

Whether the first code point for representing these two ligatures
is SHA or SA, shouldn't it be the same for both ligatures?

    U+0BB6 ஶ TAMIL LETTER SHA
    U+0BB8 ஸ TAMIL LETTER SA

But it appears that one ligature uses RA and the other uses RRA.

    U+0BB0 ர TAMIL LETTER RA
    U+0BB1 ற TAMIL LETTER RRA

---------------------------
Feel very uncomfortable when the Tamil letters were taken (ர, ற) to the 
discussion for the formation of sri/shri. ஶ or ஸ are Grantha letters. This 
is like two different scripts elements were forming a grammatical form. 
Still we were (Sri Lanka Tamils) not happy at all with the ksha encoding. 
Because the ksha is a grantha conjunct consonant not Tamil. Even the ksha 
has it unique shape. Please refer the image. You can see the "ka" shape is 
different from Tamil "ka". but when its encoded it was encoded with Tamil 
Ka. this implied that Tamil grammar has conjunct forms. When I write this 
ksha issue to unicode 3-4 months back with the same image I didn’t get any 
reply.

Thank you
Bala




-----Original Message-----
From: James Kass [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2007 2:24 PM
To: Bala; 'Unicode Mailing List'; [email protected]
Subject: Re: Tamil Sri / Shri


Quoting Peter Constable (2006/07/26),

> It was recently pointed out to me by some Tamil speakers that the new
> character 0BB6 SHA should be used in forming the shrii ligature. This is
> reflected by the provisional named sequence
>
> TAMIL LETTER SHRII;0BB6 0BCD 0BB0 0BC0
>
> This raises a question about legacy implementations and data: before the
> SHA character was added, at least some implementations (e.g. Windows
> from Win2K through XP SP2 and Server 2003 R2) created the shrii ligature
> using a character sequence with 0BB8 SA. So, when people decided this
> new character should be used for this ligature, what were they assuming
> should be done with existing implementations and data, or new
> implementations that might encounter legacy data?

It should be noted that Unicode 5.0 section 9.6 gives instructions
for forming "kssa ligature" but not for "shrii ligature".

This ligature shrii is the form appearing at the top of Bala's exhibit
"1938-page1.jpg".

It can be encoded two ways,
 0BB6 0BCD 0BB0 0BC0 - new way
 0BB8 0BCD 0BB0 0BC0 - old way

This is apparently not the same letter/ligature/conjunct which
appears as the first letter of each line starting with the second
line of text (in 1938-page1.jpg).  This does appear to represent
a spelling difference.

In the attached graphic, 1938_1and2,png, the area containing
the word "ஸ்ரீகண்டன்" is enlarged.

Whether the first code point for representing these two ligatures
is SHA or SA, shouldn't it be the same for both ligatures?

    U+0BB6 ஶ TAMIL LETTER SHA
    U+0BB8 ஸ TAMIL LETTER SA

But it appears that one ligature uses RA and the other uses RRA.

    U+0BB0 ர TAMIL LETTER RA
    U+0BB1 ற TAMIL LETTER RRA

In the proposal to encode the TAMIL LETTER SHA (N2617.PDF)
http://std.dkuug.dk/jtc1/sc2/wg2/docs/n2617.pdf
it is noted that SHA may well form conjuncts with other
letters, "MA, YA, RA, and VA".  I think that is a typo in N2617,
and that it should read "MA, YA, RRA, and VA", because the
conjunct formation with RA is specifically adressed in the
text immediately before.

Best regards,

James Kass