Re: Business Applications
"Sebastian S." <[email protected]> Wed, 22 Aug 2012 21:56:22 -0300
| Newsgroups | gmane.text.xml.xtm.general,gmane.org.w3c.semantic-web |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <CAFnmbpW7OjeD+4+ufzg8_qkJ5N5aNTnGxMn=YnTH-DR5WXk-kA@mail.gmail.com> |
--===============3056067023761179882== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf307ca3dc04934404c7e4541b --20cf307ca3dc04934404c7e4541b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi, I've been reading all of the comments and I'm taking note of all of them because they all seem very valuable to me. I'm verry thankful really. I agree in that there is some kind of solitaire fashion that one feels like when coming to this at first. And I also think that maybe I seem a little 'universal' in the needs/features I would like to implement and address too. And also that it would seem very unrealistic to come 'from the ground up' with a tool that addresses everything. So, I'm trying to narrow a little the scope and try to reflect this into an updated document. It only adds a section named 'Application Model' in respect to the first but if I'm making my point there, a general purpose tool can be thought as a layer that is useful when someone tells it what to do (quite like a traditional RDBMS or framework or programming language). So, its it could be understood that there be models narrowing this 'universality' but without losing the benefits of a layer of semantics for future integration, merging and maybe interoperability of 'semantic application instances'. https://cognescent.googlecode.com/files/Brochure2.pdf I also would like to implement this in Java, so I'm describing the initial layout of packages and their functionalities into the Google Code hosted project repository, in a document named 'packages.txt': https://code.google.com/p/cognescent/source/browse/trunk/Cognescent/src/packages.txt It is far from being more than a draft specification of components and their features. It reflects the partitioning of the proposed software model and where and what could be done. My actual coding time is not much and I'm doing this alone. Whenever updates become available they'll be published. It would be also greatly appreciated if someone can help somehow in the creation of a development team for this project. Thanks in advance! Sebastian. On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 12:08 PM, Patrick Durusau <patrick-Q/[email protected]>wrote: > Quintin, > > > On 08/19/2012 07:10 AM, Quintin Siebers wrote: > > Hey, > > We've been working on such a system for a few years now, and our current > version is open to have a look at: > > http://en.mssm.nl/software/kamala-in-the-cloud/ > > > Good point but Kamala requires (as any topic map application does) that > you establish what subjects you want to talk about, their identifies, > relationships, etc. Having said that, you can fill it with whatever content > you like. > > My objection to Sebastian's needs/features is their universal nature. > > If I were writing a topic map for business expenses, it would be very > unlikely to include the rules for receipts written in cuneiform (the > earliest business document is a receipt for beer at an inn). Not that topic > maps can't do that, but most clients are unlikely to be interested. For > that matter, of the thousands of natural languages in existence, most > clients are going to be interested in only one (1). Topic maps can do more > but again, probably not a requirement. > > You can see where this is going. > > I think topic maps shine brightest meeting the semantic requirements of > actual customers. > > That someone, somewhere, off the Net most likely, is not best served by my > topic map is quite likely. > > But, I am not arrogant enough to presume to act in their best interest, > never having asked what they want, much less their permission. > > Is the "digital divide" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_divide) the > new "white man's burden? ( > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Man%27s_Burden)" > > Hope you are having a great weekend! > > Patrick > > > > Quintin Siebers > > -- > [email protected] > (+31) (0)6 - 11 06 16 27 > > > Morpheus Kennistechnologie BV > <URL: http://www.mssm.nl > > postbus 69 > 3500 CD Utrecht > KVK 30 26 04 30 > > On 19 aug. 2012, at 13:03, Alexander Johannesen < > [email protected]> wrote: > > Hola, > > On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 8:52 PM, adasal <[email protected]> wrote: > > Is what you are proposing really possible from the ground up? I wonder if > even getting an architecture is possible from the ground up, i.e. without > starting with real world compromises dictated by the job in hand. > > > Not sure if what's proposed is possible from the ground up, but I know > it's certainly possible to create an ontology-based complete system, > however I doubt "from the ground up" has been defined enough at this > point. I've worked on creating full-stack application and systems > delivery framework based on ontologies / Topic Maps, both in terms of > integration but also as a development tool, and as a way to infer > capabilities of services based on their entity / resource rather than > clumsy API's. > > I'm fairly confident that it's the way of the future, but as you > probably allude to as well, it's still a bit way off, mostly because > whomever comes up with it first or already doing it, are doing it in > solitary, much like the TM community watching the spectacle of RDF > from the side-lines. > > > Regards, > > Alex > -- > Project Wrangler, SOA, Information Alchemist, UX, RESTafarian, Topic Maps > --- http://shelter.nu/blog/ ---------------------------------------------- > ------------------ http://www.google.com/profiles/alexander.johannesen --- > _______________________________________________ > topicmapmail mailing list > topicmapmail-Zo64W7twoUFWk0Htik3J/[email protected] > http://www.infoloom.com/mailman/listinfo/topicmapmail > > > > > _______________________________________________ > topicmapmail mailing [email protected]://www.infoloom.com/mailman/listinfo/topicmapmail > > > -- > Patrick Durusaupatrick-Q/[email protected] > Former Chair, V1 - US TAG to JTC 1/SC 34 > Convener, JTC 1/SC 34/WG 3 (Topic Maps) > Editor, OpenDocument Format TC (OASIS), Project Editor ISO/IEC 26300 > Co-Editor, ISO/IEC 13250-1, 13250-5 (Topic Maps) > > Another Word For It (blog): http://tm.durusau.net > Homepage: http://www.durusau.net > Twitter: patrickDurusau > > --20cf307ca3dc04934404c7e4541b Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi,<br><br>I've been reading all of the comments and I'm taking not= e of all of them because they all seem very valuable to me. I'm verry t= hankful really.<br><br>I agree in that there is some kind of solitaire fash= ion that one feels like when coming to this at first. And I also think that= maybe I seem a little 'universal' in the needs/features I would li= ke to implement and address too. And also that it would seem very unrealist= ic to come 'from the ground up' with a tool that addresses everythi= ng.<br> <br>So, I'm trying to narrow a little the scope and try to reflect this= into an updated document. It only adds a section named 'Application Mo= del' in respect to the first but if I'm making my point there, a ge= neral purpose tool can be thought as a layer that is useful when someone te= lls it what to do (quite like a traditional RDBMS or framework or programmi= ng language). So, its it could be understood that there be models narrowing= this 'universality' but without losing the benefits of a layer of = semantics for future integration, merging and maybe interoperability of = 9;semantic application instances'.<br> <br><a href=3D"https://cognescent.googlecode.com/files/Brochure2.pdf">https= ://cognescent.googlecode.com/files/Brochure2.pdf</a><br><br>I also would li= ke to implement this in Java, so I'm describing the initial layout of p= ackages and their functionalities into the Google Code hosted project repos= itory, in a document named 'packages.txt':<br> <br><a href=3D"https://code.google.com/p/cognescent/source/browse/trunk/Cog= nescent/src/packages.txt">https://code.google.com/p/cognescent/source/brows= e/trunk/Cognescent/src/packages.txt</a><br><br>It is far from being more th= an a draft specification of components and their features. It reflects the = partitioning of the proposed software model and where and what could be don= e. My actual coding time is not much and I'm doing this alone. Whenever= updates become available they'll be published. It would be also greatl= y appreciated if someone can help somehow in the creation of a development = team for this project.<br> <br>Thanks in advance!<br>Sebastian.<br><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">= On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 12:08 PM, Patrick Durusau <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a = href=3D"mailto:patrick-Q/[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">patrick-Q/[email protected]</= a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p= x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> =20 =20 =20 <div text=3D"#000000" bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"> Quintin,<div class=3D"im"><br> <br> <div>On 08/19/2012 07:10 AM, Quintin Siebers wrote:<br> </div> <blockquote type=3D"cite"> =20 <div>Hey,</div> <div><br> </div> <div>We've been working on such a system for a few years now, and our current version is open to have a look at:</div> <div><br> </div> <div><a href=3D"http://en.mssm.nl/software/kamala-in-the-cloud/" targ= et=3D"_blank">http://en.mssm.nl/software/kamala-in-the-cloud/</a></div> <br> </blockquote> <br></div> Good point but Kamala requires (as any topic map application does) that you establish what subjects you want to talk about, their identifies, relationships, etc. Having said that, you can fill it with whatever content you like. <br> <br> My objection to Sebastian's needs/features is their universal nature.<br> <br> If I were writing a topic map for business expenses, it would be very unlikely to include the rules for receipts written in cuneiform (the earliest business document is a receipt for beer at an inn). Not that topic maps can't do that, but most clients are unlikely to be interested. For that matter, of the thousands of natural languages in existence, most clients are going to be interested in only one (1). Topic maps can do more but again, probably not a requirement. <br> <br> You can see where this is going. <br> <br> I think topic maps shine brightest meeting the semantic requirements of actual customers. <br> <br> That someone, somewhere, off the Net most likely, is not best served by my topic map is quite likely. <br> <br> But, I am not arrogant enough to presume to act in their best interest, never having asked what they want, much less their permission. <br> <br> Is the "digital divide" (<a href=3D"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_divide" target=3D"_bla= nk">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_divide</a>) the new "white ma= n's burden? (<a href=3D"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Man%27s_Burden" = target=3D"_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Man%27s_Burden</a>)&qu= ot; <br> <br> Hope you are having a great weekend!<br> <br> Patrick<div><div class=3D"h5"><br> <br> <br> <blockquote type=3D"cite"> <div> <span style=3D"border-collapse:separate;border-spacing:0px"><span s= tyle=3D"text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;font-styl= e:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;tex= t-transform:none;font-size:13px;white-space:normal;font-family:Calibri;word= -spacing:0px"> <div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"> <div>Quintin Siebers</div> <div><br> </div> <div>--</div> <div><a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">q= [email protected]</a></div> <div>(+31) (0)6 - 11 06 16 27</div> <div><span style=3D"font-size:medium"><br> </span></div> </div> </span> <div><br> </div> <div>Morpheus Kennistechnologie BV<br> </div> <URL:=A0<a href=3D"http://www.mssm.nl" target=3D"_blank">http:= //www.mssm.nl</a>=A0><br> postbus 69<br> 3500 CD Utrecht<br> KVK 30 26 04 30</span> </div> <br> <div> <div>On 19 aug. 2012, at 13:03, Alexander Johannesen <<a href=3D= "mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">alexander.johanne= [email protected]</a>> wrote:</div> <br> <blockquote type=3D"cite">Hola,<br> <br> On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 8:52 PM, adasal <<a href=3D"mailto:ada= [email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>> wrote:<br> <blockquote type=3D"cite">Is what you are proposing really possible from the ground up? I wonder if<br> even getting an architecture is possible from the ground up, i.e. without<br> starting with real world compromises dictated by the job in hand.<br> </blockquote> <br> Not sure if what's proposed is possible from the ground up, but I know<br> it's certainly possible to create an ontology-based complete system,<br> however I doubt "from the ground up" has been defined e= nough at this<br> point. I've worked on creating full-stack application and systems<br> delivery framework based on ontologies / Topic Maps, both in terms of<br> integration but also as a development tool, and as a way to infer<br> capabilities of services based on their entity / resource rather than<br> clumsy API's.<br> <br> I'm fairly confident that it's the way of the future, but= as you<br> probably allude to as well, it's still a bit way off, mostly because<br> whomever comes up with it first or already doing it, are doing it in<br> solitary, much like the TM community watching the spectacle of RDF<br> from the side-lines.<br> <br> <br> Regards,<br> <br> Alex<br> -- <br> Project Wrangler, SOA, Information Alchemist, UX, RESTafarian, Topic Maps<br> --- <a href=3D"http://shelter.nu/blog/" target=3D"_blank">http://= shelter.nu/blog/</a> ----------------------------------------------<br> ------------------ <a href=3D"http://www.google.com/profiles/alex= ander.johannesen" target=3D"_blank">http://www.google.com/profiles/alexande= r.johannesen</a> ---<br> _______________________________________________<br> topicmapmail mailing list<br> <a href=3D"mailto:topicmapmail-Zo64W7twoUFWk0Htik3J/[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">to= picmapmail-Zo64W7twoUFWk0Htik3J/[email protected]</a><br> <a href=3D"http://www.infoloom.com/mailman/listinfo/topicmapmail"= target=3D"_blank">http://www.infoloom.com/mailman/listinfo/topicmapmail</a= ><br> </blockquote> </div> <br> <br> <fieldset></fieldset> <br> <pre>_______________________________________________ topicmapmail mailing list <a href=3D"mailto:topicmapmail-Zo64W7twoUFWk0Htik3J/[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">topicmapmail= @infoloom.com</a> <a href=3D"http://www.infoloom.com/mailman/listinfo/topicmapmail" target=3D= "_blank">http://www.infoloom.com/mailman/listinfo/topicmapmail</a> </pre> </blockquote> <br> </div></div><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><pre cols=3D= "72">--=20 Patrick Durusau <a href=3D"mailto:patrick-Q/[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">patrick-Q/[email protected]= t</a> Former Chair, V1 - US TAG to JTC 1/SC 34 Convener, JTC 1/SC 34/WG 3 (Topic Maps) Editor, OpenDocument Format TC (OASIS), Project Editor ISO/IEC 26300 Co-Editor, ISO/IEC 13250-1, 13250-5 (Topic Maps) Another Word For It (blog): <a href=3D"http://tm.durusau.net" target=3D"_bl= ank">http://tm.durusau.net</a> Homepage: <a href=3D"http://www.durusau.net" target=3D"_blank">http://www.d= urusau.net</a> Twitter: patrickDurusau </pre> </font></span></div> </blockquote></div><br> --20cf307ca3dc04934404c7e4541b-- --===============3056067023761179882== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ topicmapmail mailing list topicmapmail-Zo64W7twoUFWk0Htik3J/[email protected] http://www.infoloom.com/mailman/listinfo/topicmapmail --===============3056067023761179882==--