Re: value "on"=True in pyyaml?

I'm uncomfortable saying that `foo: true` has different meaning if it is in
block mapping vs. a flow mapping, even in 2.0.

Wrt. the wiki:

- Lots of potential in the flow scalars proposal, details need to be
polished. Definitely 2.0 here. Agree > isn't used in the wild but |
definitely is. How breaking do we want 2.0 to be? Hmmm.

- Not sure about the embedded YAML, most languages allow their own variable
interpolation in "here documents" (e.g., Ruby allows `<<EOF ... #{foo} ...
EOF`).

- Allowing explicit invalid UTF values using the \... escape sequences: I
guess so - if people _explicitly_ request invalid UTF bytes, "on their head
be it". This would allow for using "strings" to use as "binary blobs"
without needing esoteric data types such as base64.

- Defining a standard way to convert to/from JSON: Sure.

- YAML profiles: This is exactly what we started doing in the spec
(failsafe vs. JSON vs. Core). We need to clean up the type repository
accordingly. Probably in the context of some semi-standard schema mechanism.

On Wed, Mar 2, 2016 at 12:57 AM, Ingy dot Net <[email protected]> wrote:

> Oren,
>
> JSON compatibility only applies to flow form. I'm suggesting only string
> and numeric (and possibly null) implicits in the block form.
>
> Andrey,
>
> Certainly too late for 1.2.
>
> re 2.0, I assume you've seen: https://github.com/yaml/YAML2/wiki
>
> I'd like to see your list. :-)
>
> On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Oren Ben-Kiki <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>> The 1.2 spec defines the JSON-compatible schema which I think satisfies
>> all the points you made.
>>
>> We should definitely retire http://yaml.org/type/ or at least replace it
>> with something better. People doing YAML 1.2 should not start copying from
>> the current content there - you are right, this is something that hurts us.
>>
>> Working on a schema language - it is a decade late, but sure, why not?
>> Would be fun :-)
>>
>> I'm not certain I follow wrt. booleans though. Do you suggest we break
>> JSON compatibility?
>>
>> Oren.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 9:07 PM, Ingy dot Net <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> This is an example of one of the biggest issues with the state of modern
>>> day YAML. I'd bet no 2 implementations do the same thing wrt implicit
>>> typing of plain scalars.
>>>
>>> I think we need to retire http://yaml.org/type/
>>>
>>> It's an idea from over 10 years ago that was well meaning but turned out
>>> poorly. People making new YAML frameworks still use this info.
>>>
>>> I am currently of the opinion that:
>>>
>>>    - Plain scalars in block context should only implicitly type to
>>>    numbers, strings or null
>>>       - Only JSON numerics are typed to !!int or !!float
>>>       - Plain (unquoted) empty value is typed to !!null
>>>       - Everything else is typed to !!str
>>>    - Booleans should migrate to only supporting !!true and !!false
>>>       - Loaders using a default schema should support !true !false (and
>>>       !null)
>>>       - The plain values of true and false should become strings
>>>       - This might take a while to get everyone on board
>>>    - Plain scalars in flow context should behave same as JSON.
>>>       - Empty values are !!null
>>>    - We should ditch octal, binary etc as possible implicit typing of
>>>    numbers
>>>    - We should ditch the (22 of them!!) special plain values that
>>>    become boolean
>>>       - Only true and false. In flow context. Lowercase.
>>>
>>> We can still keep the tag:yaml.org,2002 types, but we need to get out
>>> of the implicit grab bag business. It will be the death of YAML!
>>>
>>> ---
>>>
>>> Related to that, is the concept that every YAML loader loads YAML to
>>> native objects under the direction of a "schema"; but currently that
>>> "schema" is baked into the code implementing loader.
>>>
>>> If we had a schema language, then all loaders could load YAML according
>>> to a textual (thus easily reasonable) guide. Schemas could even be written
>>> for loaders that didn't yet support them (as part of their doc) so that
>>> people would know what to expect from their baked in behavior.
>>>
>>> More importantly, schemas could be written for popular YAML uses like,
>>> say, Ansible or TravisCI that need values loaded a particular way. These
>>> schemas could even be made to implicitly type true/false/null scalars, for
>>> backwards compat.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 7:41 AM, Oren Ben-Kiki <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> This is old YAML 1.0/1.1 proposed schema behavior. It was deprecated
>>>> (to maximize JSON compatibility among other reasons).
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 5:20 PM, <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Is this as expected?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> kbriggs> cat yaml_on.py
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> import yaml
>>>>> x="""
>>>>>  0: on
>>>>>  1: ON
>>>>>  2: 'ON'
>>>>> """
>>>>> print yaml.load(x)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> kbriggs> python yaml_on.py
>>>>> {0: True, 1: True, 2: 'ON'}
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Keith
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>
>

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