Re: The Holy Bible

On Tue, 04 Aug 2026 20:42:04 -0700, Samuel Spade <[email protected]>
wrote:

>[email protected] wrote:
>> On Sun, 02 Aug 2026 00:35:54 -0700, Samuel Spade <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >[email protected] wrote:
>
>(snip old stuff)
>> >> Is NASA saying the earth has "ends", thus is flat or cubical? I am
>> >> sure you don't conclude they meant that literally, and neither should
>> >> you conclude the Bible is literal all the time. You have look at the
>> >> context, and other related verses etc, to determine literalness or
>> >> not. 
>> >
>> >Of course that's a metaphor.
>> >
>> >Why do you think the earth's foundations and immovability is
>> >also a metaphor?  What are the verses really referring to?
>> 
>> The Bible means, just like a large boulder is sitting firmly on the
>> ground and is immoveable, so is with the earth. It will not be moved
>> out its place. Nor will it be destroyed. It's like that boulder,
>> firmly staying where it sits.
>> 
>> >
>> >
>> >> >Your verses do seem to speak of a round earth
>> >> >unsupported in space.  The bible often contradicts
>> >> >itself, as we sometimes note.
>> >> 
>> >> That's as rare as hen's teeth. Many times if you research a Scripture,
>> >> you will find no such contradiction. But you can't be biased one way
>> >> or another.
>> >
>> >The bible has many contradictions.
>> 
>> Give me an example. What you call a contradiction may fade away once
>> you investigate. 
>
>No man can see God and live (Ex 33:20)
>but:

Good examples. I don't blame you for calling them contradictions.
The answer is that sometimes angels represent God. This is not a cop
out. It's just the BIBLE'S way of talking in places. For example,

Who gave Moses the 10 commandments? Of course God you say. And I agree
when I read it. But note what the disciple Luke wrote:

-- Revised Standard
Acts 7:53  you who received the law as delivered by angels and did not
keep it."  

Thus angels stood for God, and gave the 10 commanments to Moses.
Remember, the Bible was not written in our century, but is thousands
of years old. Thus the wording of some ideas can be somewhat
different.

>God appeared to Abraham (Gen 18)
>Jacob saw God (Gen 32)
>Moses spoke with God face to face, as to a 
>	friend (Ex 33:11)
>Moses, Aaron & 70 elders saw God (Ex 24)
>God shows Moses his butt (Ex 33:23)
>   As illustrated by Michelangelo on the ceiling 
>   of the Sistine Chapel:
><https://www.dailyartmagazine.com/michelangelo-warrior-pope-and-gods-bottom/>
>
 
See above.

>Who did Mary and Mary Magdalene see at Jesus's tomb?

Show me the Scriptures you are referring to.
>
>How did Judas die?

Please show me the Scriptures you are referring to.

I did recall a couple of Scriptures was needed to get to the truth. 
Judas hanged himself over a cliff.  Then the rope broke and he fell
spilling his guts out. But show me what you think.

>
>Also from a previous post by Mitchell Holman:
>194 Contradictions in the New Testament
><https://www.slideshare.net/salehusman585/194-contradiction-sin-the-new-testament-of-the-bible>

If you want to give them to me one at a time, I will comment on them.
I do recall a couple of Scriptures that Bible scholars say was copiest
errors in the OT. It had to do with quantaties. (like 1000 chariots,
or 10,000 chariots)

>
>
>> >> >Job 38:4
>> >> >Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the
>> >> >earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
>> >> 
>> >> A "foundation" is a supporting structure. It can mean many things.
>> >
>> >Right.  It means a supporting structure.  Which a rotating,
>> >revolving earth doesn't have.
>> 
>> Then why does it keep staying in a stable orbit when circling the sun?
>> it's got supporting structlure of some kind, otherwise we are all
>> doomed.
>
>Orbital mechanics.  Newton explained the physics of why
>bodies orbit 300 years ago.  Nothing needed to "support"
>anything.

Who made the physics that Newton discovered? So to answer you in your
nomanclature, God made the "orbital mechanics" that keeps the earth
stable. (Gen 1:1)

>
>I'm not sure what you are thinking.  Any "supporting
>structure" would get knocked into another orbit.

From what we know today, the 'structure' is not solid things. But
things like gravity. Like the suns gravity keeps the earth going
around the sun, and not flinging off into space. The tilting of the
earth of 23.5 degrees, gives us our seasons. 

The rotation of the earth is the result of "the conservation of
angular momentum". (AI Overview) To me that means an object rotating
in space will continue to do so forever until it meets another force.
But the moon does put a force on the earth that slows it down by a
"fraction of a millisecond every century". (AI Overwiew)

>
>(snip flat-earth verses),

As I said, the BIBLE shows a spherical earth floating in space
attached to nothing. (Isa 40:22; Job 26:7) Yes, unbelievers want to
ignore that proof of Bible wisdom.

>but note this one:
>
>> >> >2 Peter 3:5
>> >> >For when they maintain this, it escapes their notice
>> >> >that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago
>> >> >and the earth was formed out of water and by water,
>> >> 
>> >> Yes, I agree with all the Scriptures. What was your point?
>> >
>> >That the authors of the bible had a flat-earth, geocentric
>> >cosmology.  And they said earth was formed out of water.
>> 
>> Water? Not that I ever read. When it was created, it had a lot of
>> water associated with it. But wasn't made FROM water. 
>
>I just quoted it above. The earth was formed out of water and
>by water, 2 Pete 3:5.

(2 Peter 3:5) For they deliberately ignore this fact, that long ago
there were heavens and an earth standing firmly out of water and in
the midst of water by the word of God; (NWT)

That means there was a lot of water on the earth, and a water canapy
above the earth. (high in the atmosphere) It was like Venus looks
today, except their clouds surrounding it are made up of sulfuric
acid, etc, instead of the earth's water vapor.
(I surely won't be sunbathing on Venus)

>
>I know the earth wasn't formed out of water, you know it,
>even Genesis doesn't say it was, but the author of rePete
>didn't get the message.

Well, that can be a translators fault. Here is the RSV Bible:

-- Revised Standard
2 Peter 3:5  They deliberately ignore this fact, that by the word of
God heavens existed long ago, and an earth formed out of water and by
means of water,  

So maybe he was going by that version.

>
>
>> As for a flat earth, Just like the above about NASA, the Bible has
>> many metaphores also. But here is how the Bible describes the earth in
>> a couple of places:
>> 
>> -- New King James
>> Isaiah 40:22  It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, and its
>> inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like
>> a curtain, and spreads them out like a tent to dwell in. 
>> 
>> The word for "circle" there is the Hebrew word "hhug". Some Bible
>> experts say hhug can mean "sphere" also.
>
>Yes, we are going in that very circle.  You already pointed
>this out, I said it does sound like it says the earth is
>round, which contradicts many other verses that indicate a
>flat immovable earth.

Just like NASA says the earth is flat? ("the ends of the earth")
>
>The best you're going to get is that the bible contradicts
>itself.

Only if that is what you want. There are many Scriptures that can be
taken wrong. Here is one example:

29 If, now, your right eye is making you stumble, tear it out and
throw it away from you. For it is better for you to lose one of your
members than for your whole body to be pitched into Ge·hen´na. (Mt
5:29)

Is Jesus perpetuating "nonsuicidal self-injury disorder"?
(https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/12201-self-harm

It sure sounds like it, doesn't it. But actually, Jesus was saying
that if something is as precious as your eye, and was making you sin,
then you should remove it. (like porn is to some)

>
>> And the book of Job tells us its location:  
>> 
>> -- King James
>> Job 26:7  He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and
>> hangeth the earth upon nothing.
>
>This verse makes no sense.  What does north have to do with
>empty space and with earth hanging?  Maybe you can explain
>it.
>
>
>> So in summary we have:
>> 
>> A spherical earth hanging in space by nothing. 
>> 
>> Not bad for B.C.E. sheepherders!
>
>Again, by the time most of the OT was written down, it was
>already widely known that the earth was round.  Certainly the
>Greeks knew it when they translated the Septuagint.

How do you know?

But there is part B. God hanged the earth upon nothing.Did the B.CE
Greeks know that also? I do know that Aristotle teachings back then
taught that things in the sky, like stars, moon, etc, had to be
hanging from something.

"Planets, the sun, the moon, and the stars were thought to be
physically pinned like jewels into transparent, rotating concentric
orbs centered on the Earth." (Aristotle teaching)

Aristotle said nature abhors a vacuum. Thus all of outerspace had to
be filled with things. (AI Overview)

>
>
>Thank you for your replies, James, I appreciate your time,
>effort and explanations.

Thank you for your beliefs.

The earth is warming up.
What the Bible says.
Go to: jw.org (8/5/2026)
[email protected]