Re: choosing a motherboard

On 3/28/2024 2:44 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> Windows11 will not tolerate my motherboard because it lacks that chip.
> I suspect this old machine and Win10 will outlive me, so I'm not very
> serious about shopping for a pre-built machine and I'm kinda scared to
> attempt a build (mostly because of the old-age frailities I've picked
> since I built the last one, but also because of the money - I'm
> finally fully retired now (89) and the inflation is kinda terrifying).
> 
> But.. I've been looking around a little anyway, mostly at pre-builts,
> but in trying to study their components I find many modern
> motherboards say they will only 'support' Windows10. That's a
> deal-breaker (only one of many: no external cd rom, no front usb
> ports, some seem to lack a harddrive bay???)
> 
> Anyway, like I said, I think the FIRST thing I want to consider is
> whether it'll run WinXP and go from there. Do you guys have any advice
> on how far back (in time) in motherboards  I must look to assure it'll
> have drivers to run XP?
> And of course have Win11 capability, those M sockets for ssd's, 32GB
> RAM, a popup boot menu etc etc.
> 

Windows 11 prefers a CPU with hardware MBEC support.
Which at the time of Windows 11, specified "no more than three year old processors".

However, Windows 11 disk drive, if stuck in an older computer, still boots.
When a Win11 version comes out which requires POPCNT instruction (not available
on E8400), then the boot of transferred disk drives will be amended a bit.

Windows 11 could use fTPM (BIOS TPM emulator), or it can use a physical
TPM module (many form factors and pinouts - maybe a 14 pin one has three
different pinouts on the market). My computer store, no longer has the TPM
module that fits my B550 board. There is no particular reason, TPM modules
must be "cycled" this often in design. (Changed, to fuck with the customers.)

*******

Win7 worked up to Skylake, with Microsoft blessing. Drivers can be
missing on later stuff.

For WinXP, you would need older-still kit, and a used system is the most
likely to be accessible. Video drivers could be a problem on WinXP,
and you might need an older video card. I have three that might work,
the 7900 or so from NVidia (PCIe), the HD6450 from AMD (PCIe), and
I have an FX5200 PCI (a horrible option, but useful in its time
for temporary usage). The 7900 spanned WinXP thru early Win10, but
I doubt today there is a WDDM driver of new enough vintage.

Generally speaking, a WinXP machine won't span far enough forward to cover
Win11. That's a bit too much of a stretch. Maybe you could span
say, Win8 thru Win11 hardware wise. Or you could span WinXP thru Win10
(which I've done with an E8400 and X48). The 7900 video card, was from
the BFG going-out-of-business sale, and the video card might have
been $65 brand new in box. Only one shipment of those showed up
and I could only get one of them. The video card in the computer
right now, is a "single-shipment" deal as well, could not go back
to the computer store and get a second one. Some people would
term the things I buy, as junk, and they'd be pretty close :-)

But on motherboards, I don't think there's that much interest
in keeping junk around. Just as production of DDR3 chips stopped
last year, and this behavior is also a bit weird, compared to the
duration of production of some older types. The world is more of
a "here and now" place. Less depth of stock. Less TigerDirect.

I would point you at a refurb, like my Optiplex 780, as that's
an E7500 Core2 and a Q45. That's likely to run WinXP from a driver
perspective. I don't know if that was released with Vista or
with Win7, as the shipping OS. The Q45 is roughly the same
vintage as my X48 (and it ran WinXP). The Optiplex 780 in Mid-Tower
is likely easier to repair, and the smaller ones (USFF), I don't like
the small stuff, because of the trouble in finding a decent
video card that even remotely fits. Sure, you can use the Q45...
for your screen saver.

The machine had DisplayPort, but it's not
DP++ and cannot be passively converted to HDMI with a $7 cable.
But I got an active converter, and it's proved useful a number
of times now for little projects, so not a waste of money at all.
For example, the HDMI on my new monitor didn't work right,
but driving the monitor using the DP to HDMI active adapter
worked just great. That's why I've recommended to people in the
past, to stock a few cheap active converters at home, to cover
"issues" with the shit you buy.

For the "E7500 Core2 and Q45", that refused to upgrade to
Win10 22H2. 21H2 was fine. The installer didn't say anything, but
I think the available driver might have been XDDM all that time,
and eventually they dropped XDDM support and wanted some
version of WDDM only. I stuck the HD6450 in the machine (13 watt
card), and it has an early WDDM driver, good enough to get
22H2 to install.

I only give little hints like this, to suggest how many rough
edges this stuff has. It takes a lot of "research", to make
absolutely sure a used or old setup, is really worth the money.
It helps if the machines are "regular size", so more video card
options are available.

When my X48 died, I couldn't find a trustworthy exact replacement.

I have managed to install WinXP on my X79 machine... but the
screen ran at 800x600 (no driver for video). Which is hardly useful.
I had to make up a little driver floppy and F6 that in. An
Asmedia SATA card I happen to have, has a WinXP driver. I had
to scout around my junk pile, to figure that out. Big smile on my
face, when I insert the CD in the machine, and the stupid thing
has a WinXP driver folder. Surprise! But not hearly as lucky on
video. I think the video card barely got a Win7 driver (one driver),
and the card doesn't go back further than that.

Lots of calculating and scheming to do, that's for sure.
Not an easy job (labor intensive, time waster).

   Paul