Re: Computer turns on and then just dies

On Thu, 12/5/2024 10:30 AM, VanguardLH wrote:
> Paul <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
>> On Wed, 12/4/2024 3:14 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
>>
>>> After a new build or change, I'll monitor temps for awhile.  So,
>>> having to manually check periodically is okay instead of having
>>> something always running that keeps a history of temperature
>>> readings (which I'd still have to manually go check).  Something
>>> that logs a history of temp readings along with alerting on
>>> overtemps would be preferable.
>>
>> CPU-Z, you can go to the About tab, and there is an option to Save as
>> Text.
>>
>> Open the file, which is MachineName.txt , and have a look.
> 
> But *I* would have to keep repeatedly saving the current statistics, and
> into different log files to merge together to get a history of
> temperatures.  No thanks.  That's like me standing somewhere taking
> repeated pics of some scene to create a slide show rather than plant a
> camera on a tripod that is scheduled to automatically take pics of the
> same spot.  I'd rather have software do the chore than me doing the
> mundane task.
> 
> I know I've seen a program that retained a history of temperatures.  I
> use HD Sentinel which includes monitoring temps of drives, and it has a
> history.  But not of the CPU, GPU, or memory modules.
> 
>> This is not a "convenient method", but it is a method, and it
>> is useful when no other method has a driver for the Hardware Monitor
>> or whatever.
> 
> Pretty much dictates that after booting into the OS that I would be
> preoccupied with repeatedly saving to a log what are the current
> readings.
> 
> I mentioned using SpeedFan (https://www.almico.com/speedfan.php)
> primarily to control CPU and case fan speeds (on a defective mobo).
> SpeedFan does have an option to log history into a file.  It's been 5
> years, or more, since I last used SpeedFan, so I forgot it had the
> logging feature.  Main window -> Configure -> Log tab, select Enabled
> checkbox, Temperatures tab, select the temp you want to log, and select
> the Logged checkbox.  I don't have it installed to check if that navpath
> is still correct.  As I recall, I remember using temp and fan speed
> history in Speedfan shown as a chart to determine what happened when I
> played a game, or for some other event in which I was curious how it
> might affect temps and speeds, and how fast those would accelerate or
> decelerate after the event.
> 
> From a 7-year old forum post, someone said Open Hardware Monitor
> (https://openhardwaremonitor.org/) has Options -> Log Sensors that will
> automatically save all sensor data as a function of time at an interval
> you select into a dated file into the same folder as where is the
> executable for the program.  Could run afoul of Windows 7+ protection
> keeping programs and program data in separate paths, so you might have
> to run OHM in a folder other than under C:\Program Files [(x86)].
> 
> So, some temp monitors can log a history of temps.  I'm sure there are
> more than those I mentioned.
> 

I'm sure you're aware at the moment, that Microsoft has a hate-on for
"drivers", such as the driver that Speedfan uses. Similarly,
I had installed some copy of Asus AISuite (which includes hardware
monitor info), and the driver for that is blacklisted. A notification
will appear on your screen, telling you to remove it. Any driver
of the "exploit-able" type, is getting this treatment.

The developers knew long ago, that this would be an issue.
At one time, it might have been "giveio.sys", which was used
to break through the admin-only protection on access to
hardware. Well, that kind of thing has caught up to us,
and various things are either getting damaged or they're
getting blacklisted.

This is why, it's fine to quote historical references to all
the tools we used to use. but nobody is keeping track
of the tools that raise a "nasty-gram" on the user screen.
I can't keep track of all these. But I *have* been surprised,
when software I installed, then removed, left a bloody driver
behind (the exploit type), and NOW Microsoft is pointing
these things out to me. At first I'm incredulous - "where
did this come from?". Typically, the utility was installed
in Windows 7, I did a W10-over-W7 install, and the file
is *still* in the System32 folder in Win10. It was actually
an artifact from windows 7 days.

This means, if I happen to test something in the last ten
minutes, and the OS doesn't find fault with it... I'm likely
to create a reference to it in a posting. I can't be sure
what the disposition of Speedfan is. Speedfan development
stopped. The new SuperIO and their hardware monitor section,
there's no code in Speedfan for them. There is none in Linux
for my new motherboards either. And also, some of
the ACPI objects don't have the right name, so even if
a utility can figure out something is there, there is
nothing that says "item number five is the motherboard temperature".
I have a few items in the hardware monitor, which appear to be
"bogus", but I can't really be sure they're not inputs.

So really, the computer is now just as bad as it was in MBM5 days.
It's degraded to that point. In MBM5 days, each motherboard
was custom developed, users would provide raw readings, the
dev would work up a prototype, the user would feed back
whether the readings made sense. And so on. That was
before some of these items had info added to ACPI, to
bypass the "giveio.sys" issue.

It's just a constant mess. Only individual humans have
allowed us to make forward progress. When they disappear,
we fall back into the soup of ignorance.

   Paul