RE: [PHP] Re: php framework vs just php?

[snip]
The real measure of a good framework is the length of time it takes to 
create a new database table, then write the components to maintain the 
contents of that table. I can do this in 5 minutes without having to
write a 
single line of PHP, HTML or SQL. If you can't match this then you're not
in 
the same league.
[/snip]

We're not worthy...and many take less than 5 minutes.

This is not the only real measure of a good framework, it is just one of
many. I wrote a tool a long time ago that does the table/form/query bit
in well under 5 minutes with several permutations. A good framework is
measured by ease of use and solving of common problems.