Re: [PHP] Re: php framework vs just php?

"Stut" <[email protected]> wrote in message 
news:[email protected]...
> Tony Marston wrote:
>> "Stut" <[email protected]> wrote in message 
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> Tony Marston wrote:
>>>> ""Jay Blanchard"" <[email protected]> wrote in message 
>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>> [snip]
>>>>> If you don't use a framework then obviously you are writing nothing 
>>>>> but
>>>>> mickey mouse programs, and wouldn't stand a chance when it comes to
>>>>> writing a proper application.
>>>>> ......If you think you can achieve the same
>>>>> level of productivity WITHOUT a framework then you are living in cloud
>>>>> \cuckoo land.
>>>>> \[/snip]
>>>>>
>>>>> Tony is obviously joking here folks.
>>>> No I'm not.
>>> Shocking and unexpected opinion from the developer of a framework. NOT!
>>>
>>> Anyway, I can see this falling into another lengthy discussion so I'll 
>>> get my contribution in early to avoid disappointment.
>>>
>>> As others have mentioned this question is plagued by semantic arguments. 
>>> To me a framework is as much about the way requests are routed and 
>>> handled as it is about utility code.
>>>
>>> I don't use what I would call a framework, but I do have a 
>>> well-established file layout for my sites and an extensive library of 
>>> code that covers everything I need to do regularly.
>>
>> This could be classed as a framework as it obviously provides the means 
>> to make use of all that code which has already been written and therefore 
>> does not (or should not) need to be written again and again. As well as 
>> providing a few low-level routines a fully fledged framework will also 
>> provide a series of high-level functions such as user authentication, 
>> role based access control, dynamic menus, audit logging and perhaps a 
>> workflow system.
>
> Not to me, that would be a code library. A framework is something that 
> would tie it all together and in doing so would introduce certain rules 
> and restrictions.

That's exactly what my framework does. It gives immediate access to a great 
deal of standard functionality without having to reinvent the wheel.

>> The real measure of a good framework is the length of time it takes to 
>> create a new database table, then write the components to maintain the 
>> contents of that table. I can do this in 5 minutes without having to 
>> write a single line of PHP, HTML or SQL. If you can't match this then 
>> you're not in the same league.
>
> If that's your attitude I'm very happy to be in a different league. I tend 
> not to measure my productivity by how quickly I can develop functionality, 
> but rather on how well it runs, scales and how user-friendly it is. I'm 
> yet to meet a "framework" that satisfies those requirements.

I tend to write applications which only expect to have a low number of users 
and where the speed of development, and hence the cost, is the most 
important issue.

> This is a personal preference and your arrogance has definitely put me off 
> ever going near your code whether it be a framework or a hello world. You 
> are not better than me just because you use something you call a 
> framework, and the fact that you think you are has given me my biggest 
> chuckle of the day, so thanks for that.
>
> -Stut

Glad to be of service. Don't applaud, just throw money.

-- 
Tony Marston
http://www.tonymarston.net
http://www.radicore.org