Re: UK Project Opportunity

Manuel Lemos wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> on 02/17/2010 12:34 AM Nathan Rixham said the following:
>>>> in all honesty the following are the sticking point that make it hard
>>>> for me to decide if I was right in my earlier response:
>>>>
>>>> 1: that the "sign up to get the class" is even part of the equation
>>> This is another misunderstanding. The site does not make anybody
>>> register to download any package. That is an option determined by each
>>> author.
>>>
>>> That is explained in the site FAQ and other places, but some people
>>> still misunderstand it and assume that it is an evil imposition of the site.
>>>
>>> http://www.phpclasses.org/faq/#register-to-download
>>>
>>> It may not be obvious, but the truth is that this detail is one of the
>>> reasons for the success of the site.
>> again, hence why I said "part of the equation"; it is can be switched on
>> and off by the author on a per file basis, but to me it would make more
>> sense to leave the decision of signing up to the user, and not try and
>> influence it in anyway - personally I would remove the optional part of
>> it and simply do what other sites do; present the user with two choices
>> "register and download" or "download without registering".
>>
>> A similar topic of opt-in vs opt-out on emails is often discussed;
>> however I believe it has to be "opt-in" now, within the UK certainly.
> 
> That is because you are only seeing it from the view point of the user.
> 
> People need to have motivation to do what they do. Authors only submit
> their packages to PHPClasses site if they gain something from it. What
> the site provides them is attention.

I know - I'm an author ;) [or was, well still am, can't delete profile
so left some files up their for anybody who may find them useful] - and
as for attention, the last class I put on phpclasses was getting 5
downloads a week, and 1k+ a week on sourceforge.

> As I explained in another reply, if an author leaves the login
> requirement enabled, the site can keep track of the users that
> downloaded the packages. That can be used for sending alerts when a new
> version of the package is released, or a new blog about the package is
> posted.
> 
> The site can also build download charts that lets authors see their
> progress in user interest and motivate them to continue to submit more
> packages or update existing ones.
> 
> In the end everybody wins.

and it can do all this with the user being in control and choosing to
give that info.. as implemented on millions of other sites..

>>>> 3: that users can't delete an account
>>> That is explained in the FAQ. The site does not allow users to recreate
>>> accounts with the same address or access name. If you really delete an
>>> account, you have no way to prevent that an user recreates an account
>>> with the same access name and e-mail address. That would be a hole for
>>> malicious users to cheat on several types of rankings and contests that
>>> the site organizes.
>>>
>>> http://www.phpclasses.org/faq/#delete-account
>>>
>>> Other than that, most sites out there never really delete accounts. Some
>>> claim they do, but then you try to create an account with the same
>>> credentials and the site says the account still exists. I would rather
>>> tell users the truth.
>> I've read it quite a few times, and as a developer I know very well that
>> you could delete the account and prevent the address from being re-used
>> very easily with little code; the ethics of making somebody remove each
>> tiny bot of info and file from your site in order to manually remove
>> themselves is a bit.. debatable to me - again, personally I'd do it the
>> same way as everybody else, giving the user the option of whether to
>> make the username and email address available to be re-registered. I
>> strongly feel all these kind of choices should be in the hands of the
>> user, and not the company.
> 
> The site sorts of give that option to the users by letting them know
> that it does not remove accounts. Users that disagree, should just not
> register.
> 
> It is like you go to some country and if for some reason you leave,
> probably upset with something, you will not be able to erase the records
> of your presence in  that country.
> 
> This site is not really interested in your personal information. The
> reason this site does not remove accounts is because it is used to
> prevent several types of fraud. I am just not going to enter in much
> detail here in public on what happens to not give ideas to cheaters that
> may be reading this. I hope you understand.

as stated, you could just remove the public pages of said user and keep
the username + email taken; quite easily

>>>> 4: the amount of adverts
>>> I wish it was viable to remove all the ads. That would mean that the
>>> site could succeed on revenue from other services. Advertising was plan
>>> B. I still hope someday I can take all ads down. Meanwhile, premium
>>> subscribers have all ads removed from the site. In some cases, they see
>>> other valuable information in the place of the ads.
>> the amount; not suggesting you remove adverts all together, it's the
>> currency of the web!
> 
> Unfortunately I cannot reduce the current amount of ads. The site
> already eliminated most types of pop-under ads because they are too
> annoying for the users. That caused a significant ad revenue reduction.
> 
> Maybe if the number of premium subscriptions raises to a significant
> level I can reduce or even eliminated all ads. While that does not
> happen, I am afraid the current number of ads has to kept.

that's a business decision then I guess.

>>> There are much more things upcoming. Most of the things are based on
>>> suggestions from users because that is the way to make this a more
>>> satisfactory project for everybody.
>>>
>>> But I have to manage this as any real business to keep it viable.
>>>
>>> Most people that use the site do it to some how make money for
>>> themselves, being that using code or solutions found on the site to
>>> develop paid projects for clients, find developers to work on their
>>> projects, etc..
>>>
>>> The site charges for some services, but I believe it charges reasonable
>>> amounts for the benefits it provides and the paying users will make much
>>> more using such benefits.
>>>
>> I do hope it all goes well for you and the community, and that the right
>> choices are made - when in doublt just look at the big guys like
>> sourceforge, github etc and see how they do it - the better your service
>> and easier it is for users, the more chance you get of full donated
>> hosting and investments - I guess a good measure will be when you have
>> several of the big PHP projects / libraries on there.
> 
> Well, those sites are not exactly for the same purpose. They are for
> hosting the actual project development. The PHPClasses site is more for
> distribution. Each type of site needs to find a business model that
> adequates to the type of activity that goes one in the site.
> 

if you made the site more accessible; didn't lock in users, took off the
registration, cut down the ads (not remove), improved the templates,
promoted the developers by giving their details free and showing off
their fine work; hell why not even integrate with these fine project
hosting sites (that'll cut the bandwidth..) then maybe - just maybe
traffic would rise; people would enjoy the site more; use it more and in
turn the money maker which is the job ad's would get more exposure and
boost revenue for you.

you've got everything there to make a great community which would in
turn fund you and be a fine business - there are other ways to do
things. I know it's been 8 years but you can always change / tweak.

ultimately though, it is a business the focus has to be on making sure
the money comes in & that has to be priority #1 (?)