Re: [PHP] the state of the PHP community

Larry Garfield wrote:
> On Thursday 29 July 2010 12:36:13 am Nathan Rixham wrote:
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I find myself wondering about the state of the PHP community (and
>> related community with a PHP focus), so, here's a bunch of questions -
>> feel free to answer none to all of them, on list or off, or add more of
>> your own - this isn't for anything specific, just out of interest and
>> sure I (and everybody who reads the replies) will learn something +
>> doors/options/contacts may come of it. The only thing I can guarantee is
>> that I'm genuinely interested in every reply and will read every one of
>> them + lookup every tech and link mentioned.
>>
>> in no particular order:
>>
>> What other languages and web techs do you currently use other than PHP?
>> - if you include html or css please include version, if js then
>> preferred libs, and whether client or server side.
> 
> PHP, MySQL, and Javascript make up the vast majority of my code these days.
> 
>> What's your previous language/tech trail?
> 
> I started with Fortran back in high school, then C, then Java, then C++.  In 
> college I added PHP, Perl, and VB (in mostly that order), then more C++ and 
> Java.  PHP is the one I really stuck with, obviously, although I did spend 
> time doing Palm OS development in C.
> 
>> Are you considering any new languages or techs, and if so which?
>>   - names / links
> 
> One of these days I want to learn more about Erlang, because functional 
> programming is brain-breaking but nifty.
> 
>> Is PHP your hobby/interest, primary development language, just learning or?
> 
> Day job and hobby.
> 
>> How many years have you been using PHP regularly?
> 
> Full time professionally about 6 years, but have been working with it as my 
> main language since 2000 or so.
> 
>> How many years have you been working with web technologies?
> 
> I did my first website in 1996-ish, somewhere between Fortran and C. :-)  My 
> first paid project was for my then-state representative in 2000 in home-grown 
> PHP 3.  (I am very glad that site is no longer in existence.)
> 
>> Did you come from a non-web programming background?
> 
> I was a CS major, but my college's web program was way way behind what I was 
> learning on my own.  By graduate school I was correcting the professors on web 
> technology in the middle of class.  (Yes, I was one of those students.)
> 
>> Is your primary role web developer or designer?
> 
> PHP programmer, software architect, and technical site architect.
> 
>> In your developer life, are you an employer, and employee, contractor,
>> freelancer, part of a team of equal standing members?
> 
> I work for a ~20 person consulting shop (http://www.palantir.net/) consisting 
> of designers, project managers, front-end developers/themers, and 
> engineers/PHP gurus.  Our company is at this point all Drupal-based and 
> business is quite good. :-)
> 
>> Do you tend to work on jobs for geo-local clients, clients in the same
>> country, or do you work internationally 'on the web'?
> 
> I think all of our clients are in the US, but all around the country.
> 
>> How do you get your projects? do they come to you, word of mouth, do you
>> hunt and bid for projects, code call, visit clients, target clients
>> individually you think you can help, or?
>> - not looking for trade secrets, just to get enough for an overall picture.
> 
> Our CEO is disturbingly good at shaking the money tree, and after 14 years in 
> the business our reputation is high enough that we get cold-called to bid on 
> RFPs, many of them really good projects.  We employ several leading Drupal 
> developers so our collective reputation and project history is all the 
> marketing we need.  Being good open source community citizens (sharing as much 
> knowledge as we can about how we do what we do) helps as well.
> 
>> Do you have any frustrations with the PHP community, do you find you
>> want to talk shop but can't, or find people to work with but can't, have
>> projects in mind you want to do but can't find people to do them with etc?
> 
> Oh god, where do I start...
> 
> - Why is there no good iCal library?  Seriously.  My company is looking for 
> sponsorship to write one, because everything we could find sucks.
> 
> - Those driving PHP development itself (vis, writing the engine) don't seem to 
> comprehend the idea of someone running a web site who isn't also a C 
> developer, sysadmin, and performance specialist.  "If you don't have root then 
> we don't care about you" is the prevailing attitude I see.  I'm sure most of 
> PHP-DEV will disagree with that assessment but I've been reading the list for 
> 3 years now and that sense is very clear.  That's quite unfortunate given that 
> the vast majority of PHP scripts are still on shared hosting where you have no 
> control over the environment at all.
> 
> - Organization?  Collaboration?  Standards?  Process?  What are those?  I 
> really feel for Lukas Smith, as he tried really hard to bring some sort of 
> sanity to the PHP dev process before finally giving up in despair.  I really do 
> respect what he was doing and wish he'd been more successful.
> 
> - If I still remembered enough C to do so and had time to do so I'd try to 
> work on PDO.  Sadly I don't have either.  PDO is in desperate need of help, 
> apparently, and everyone is standing around waiting for someone else to do 
> something about it.  Given that databases are kinda critical for most PHP apps 
> that is a non-small problem.
> 
>> Do you network with other PHP'ers in real life - meetups etc, do you
>> tend to shy away, or do you find you circulate in other web related but
>> non PHP focussed communities?
> 
> Mostly my work in the Drupal project eats up 99.9% of my community networking 
> time, so I have very little left over for general PHP networking.  I used to 
> be somewhat active in the Chicago PHP users group but haven't been for some 
> time.
> 
>> Are you a member or any other web tech communities, opensource efforts,
>> or standardization bodies - again, if so which?
> 
> I'm one of the lead developers of Drupal (although the term is very vague in 
> the Drupal world), and the Database subsystem maintainer for Drupal 7 and 
> later having written most of it.  I am also in my 3rd year as a member of the 
> Drupal Association Board of Directors as Director of Legal Affairs.
> 
> I was also the lead organizer of the GoPHP5 effort a few years ago that managed 
> to finally kill off PHP 4.
> 
> In theory I'm the Drupal rep to the "PHP Standards" working group, but I think 
> that group has pretty well died.
> 
>> Are there any efforts, projects or initiatives which are floating your
>> boat right now and that your watching eagerly (or getting involved with)?
> 
> Just lots of stuff within the Drupal world, which is large enough to keep me 
> busy.  I won't bore you with details.  Come to DrupalCon Copenhagen next month 
> if you want such details. :-)
> 
> --Larry Garfield

Hi Larry,

Thanks for taking the time to reply, a solid insightful one at that - 
kudos +1 for your opensource drupal efforts!

Good of you to mention, and indeed to see, Palinter grasping opensource 
with two hands, this is certainly a very credible approach to business 
which deservedly reaps good rewards; testament to this is Day Software 
(including of course Roy T. Fielding) which it seems is just about to be 
bought by Adobe, a big +1 for this approach; and one I hope to see more of.

With regards drupal development, there is a rather interesting chap 
called Stéphane Corlosquet [ http://drupal.org/user/52142 ] who does a 
fair bit of committing and really pushes the semantic web / linked data 
side of drupal - definitely worth keeping tabs on.

Thanks again for your reply, the Jamie Lawrence quote on your homepage 
[1] and providing a quick laugh via your april 1st post - lol.

Best,

Nathan

[1] Arguing with an engineer is like mud wrestling with a pig; after a 
few hours, you realize he likes it. — Jamie Lawrence