Re: [PHP-GTK-DEV] Yes, particularly Glade3

So it's not a great idea to do a wiki because that was tried in the past...G=
ot it. So what I wanna do is get that website up and with a new face. People=
 coming by this website have several issues I can name in this post.=20

Table of Contents:
1. Readability
1.1. Front Page Readability
1.2. Headings
1.3. ARIA
1.4. Sidebars

2. Aesthetics
2.1. First Impression
2.2. Modern, LIVING

3. Documentation

1) Readability: How People View the Content Itself
Covering the issues on the site involving content layout.

1.1) Front Page Readability:=20
This is certainly an issue given the mess of a front page we're stuck with r=
ight now. If we switch to what php.net uses, it will be much easier to tell w=
hat should be considered as details, main text, etc. I'm sure Alexandre, who=
 is usually the man up front with posting, will appreciate these aesthetics,=
 as they will space things out a bit and people will be able to tell with le=
ss clutter what is translated as Portuguese and what is translated as Englis=
h. (As a side note, I'm wondering as to whether or not Portuguese is the sam=
e in all countries, because even English isn't the same in other countries, b=
ut it's different compared to other languages. Usually just a misplaced 's' i=
f you're American).=20

1.2) Headings=20
Headings currently add to the clutter, which when, in Alexandre's case, is n=
ot his issue, but the layout of whatever or however the webpage is rendered.=
 I'm considering this a CSS/theming issue rather than a misplaced <h1> or <h=
2> tag, which gets themed by either CSS or in CMS and blogs, the theme used.=
 This theme is last century and generally ancient when it comes to Internet y=
ears; anything as far back as 2011 can be considered ancient just because ev=
en if it ain't broke, the Internet likes to fix the problems of consumers. A=
dvances on the Internet are made quickly, and whether other devs outside of h=
ere like it or not, PHP is a monolithic beast, but it's not going anywhere. S=
o, by fixing this issue by replacing themes, Alexandre's posts will become h=
ella readable compared to what they are now.=20

1.3) ARIA
This is accessibility, and is an issue on the PHP-GTK website that is one of=
 the many beasts out there that I'm pretty sure is one of the beasts slain b=
y the new php.net theme, assuming it follows HTML5 standards. This means any=
 headings will be recognized by screen readers in the right order and will c=
omply with ARIA standards (despite my own visual impairment, though not comp=
letely blind, is something I don't know anything about whatsoever).

1.4) Sidebars
I'm pretty sure with the current php.net, you can ease the clutter with just=
 one sidebar, whereas this looks like Drupal Garland hell. I'm pretty sure I=
 haven't used two sidebars at all since I've been making websites as far bac=
k as my noob days as a third grader without any prior knowledge of programmi=
ng other than HTML.=20

1.5) Uggghhhh-ly Font
Again something solved in the wake of the new php.net.

2) Aesthetics=20
How people see us in the era of the Internet as it stands.

2.1) First Impression
I have noticed this when I visited the site in the past, before I showed up r=
ecently. to be honest, I didn't know it was "dead." I'm probably going to be=
 sarcastic to others out there about that when I'm out in the wild/external s=
ites asking for help and people all of a sudden go silent and say "What?" Th=
is is one of the biggest reasons I want to do this to the PHP-GTK website. I=
 want to do this to clarify the fact that just because you cannot judge a bo=
ok by it's cover, you CAN judge a website by IT's design, look at Facebook. O=
ne button moved and it's like a total war breaks out. We need to remove the '=
90s stereotype because honest to God my OCD is killing me (yes, a medical co=
ndition, people need to stop using it as an excuse) and it's because I can s=
till see those gray lines. I have a similar issue with the way reddit is des=
igned.=20

2.2) Modern, LIVING
We are currently standing with most as a "dead" community. People who said w=
e were dead are going to come here and think that just yesterday we were a l=
iving, breathing 1990's website, which we're the exact opposite. So that def=
initely will send a ripple for anyone who visits. Also, someone should check=
 the Wikipedia page; it's hysterical.=20

3) Documentation
This part I need you guys to decide for me, because a wiki is definitely out=
 of the question after the last ordeal. I also don't want to have to just be=
 like, "Okay, this is what we're doing!" on this one in particular, because i=
t is, I believe, the second biggest thing other than the project's code itse=
lf. So, I can revise this section once you decide how we'll clean the docs r=
elating to PHP-GTK.=20

Again, it might not be the most important part of the project, but it should=
 and needs to be done, and I can very easily get that accomplished given tim=
e (scheduling, man, it sucks). But, hey, I think we're finally going somewhe=
re with this.=20

--MGage--

> On Jun 22, 2015, at 2:37 PM, Ben Ramsey <[email protected]> wrote:
>=20
> On Mon, Jun 22, 2015 at 12:19 PM, Gage Morgan <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>>=20
>> As for the website, does anyone here think a wiki would fit? Anyways, I
>> partially want to retheme the website because this one still uses the
>> legacy theme. So, I started with the mailing list first because I tried I=
RC
>> and it was like radio silence out there. I just thought this looked like a=

>> good place to kickstart, and now look, people!
>=20
> A re-theme would be great!
>=20
> I don't think we should look to host a wiki on the PHP.net servers, though=
.
> Anything that requires database access or filesystem access (storing files=

> to disk to serve as a database) can be problematic for portability and
> security reasons. We used to have a wiki, for example, and it got clogged
> up with spam, so the wiki was taken down.
>=20
> Maybe we could turn on the wiki for the GitHub repo and use that instead?
>=20
> Other than my reservations about storage on the server, I fully support
> website redesign efforts, and I'll help where I can.
>=20
> Cheers,
> Ben