Re: [PHP-GTK-DEV] History, "Dead" and community

I'm not sure yet as to whether or not I'll be available on Thursday, but if I=
 am, I'll show up.=20

--MGage--

> On Jun 23, 2015, at 4:48 AM, Mr L. Pegg <[email protected]> wrote:
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> Elizabeth,
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> It's been a long time :D things have picked up here though the IRC
> channel has remained rather quiet when ever i have popped in.
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> As for the documentation I have a working knowledge of the system if
> anyone is interested in learning but it would be much more advised to
> upgrade the documentation to a new docbook version.
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> Regards Leon
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>> On Mon, Jun 22, 2015 at 5:22 PM, Gage Morgan <[email protected]> wro=
te:
>> Not for Long:
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>> We're gonna bring this back around, even if it kills us (I hope; this com=
munity needs some revitalization badly). Bruno is testing some stuff, and Al=
exandre is working on an actual implementation. I hope to help both at two p=
oints in time, particularly mid- to late-July. Thank you for your support, a=
nd I appreciate those of you that stayed theough the darker times to help us=
her me in.
>>=20
>> --MGage--
>>=20
>>> On Jun 22, 2015, at 12:35 PM, Elizabeth M Smith <[email protected]=
> wrote:
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>>> Hi folks.
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>>> The mailing list got REALLY busy all of the sudden.
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>>> I've been having issues with php mailing lists (they REALLY don't like
>>> my email) and just realized all the stuff going on here.
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>>> First of all it's great to have people interested in the project.  For
>>> a LONG time it's been 1 or 2 people... with a few popping up here or
>>> there to get interested and then moving on quickly (usually when they
>>> realize how much work needs to be done)
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>>> And although there's been someone keeping track of the actual code
>>> itself - the website was completely abandoned (thanks for taking that
>>> monstrosity on) and the documentation has been similarly abandoned
>>> (it's in old docbook and uses xsl to generate) - the people who once
>>> knew how that worked are gone
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>>> There have actually been a couple of attempts to start up a php-gtk3
>>> project before.  But it's a BIG undertaking and only having 1 or 2
>>> people work on it makes it difficult to get off the ground.
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>>> There's also the fact that a fully introspected version of the
>>> extension (like pythons gobject) have some pretty deep underlying
>>> issues (mostly related to the typelibs and the fact that they are
>>> strongly linked in many aspects to the python gobject wrapping
>>> implementation) - which is why although there's a prototype of an
>>> introspected solution it doesn't really work well.
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>>> If you're interested in some of the code you can find it
>>> https://github.com/gtkforphp/ - some of it was actually working once
>>> upon a time.
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>>> I think it's a good idea to do a "new" gtk for php but I think there
>>> are some things to keep in mind.
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>>> 1. We do have an irc channel on freenode #php-gtk - this is a great
>>> way to connect with the people who still work on the project and know
>>> the code - not  only the php-gtk code and php internals code, but the
>>> gnome libraries as well.  Especially when talking technical details
>>> it's nice to do it in realtime.
>>> 2. The project has never been completely dead - it just basically only
>>> had one dev  (who is poor at recruiting) for a long time - which is
>>> never a good thing
>>> 3. The php-gtk source code is on php.net and mirrored on github -
>>> there have been some prs but not a lot - and none from the people now
>>> currently conversing on the list -  and it's also limited to the
>>> problem of basically 1 developer to look at and pull them
>>> 4. Discussions on the future should be all on list - not in private emai=
ls :)
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>>> Some thoughts on a complete rewrite
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>>> 1. a monolithic extension is not very useful - php-gtk should become
>>> several small extensions
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>>> right now php-gtk has wrappings for gtk, gdk, some glib, atk, some
>>> cairo integration (although most of cairo was pulled into it's own
>>> extension)  and many others
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>>> parts of glib, cairo, and other gnome libraries such as clutter make
>>> sense to use not only in a gui environment, but even in a server
>>> environment
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>>> This would even allow for things like a gtk2 and gtk3 extension
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>>> the extension(s) should probably mirror the underlying libraries
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>>> glib, gobject, gio, cairo(exists, is getting a php7 fix), pango (also
>>> exists), atk, gtk2, gtk3, gdk, clutter, gstreamer, etc.
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>>> 2. If you're rewriting from scratch, a PHP7 only version is probably a g=
ood idea
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>>> The internal apis of php have changed an incredible amount from 5 -> 7
>>> and it would be both very ugly and very hard to support both PHP7 and
>>> PHP 5.6(and higher) in the same code base
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>>> 3. PHP-gtk has very very few tests... and needs them
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>>> This is probably as important as the rewrite - although you really
>>> don't need to test the functionality of the gtk library itself, it IS
>>> important to make sure the bindings are tight.
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>>> As far as getting php-gtk commit karma, that's really not that hard
>>> Submit some PR's - usually 2 or 3 good ones with tests
>>> Discuss things on list and/or in IRC
>>> As long as stuff doesn't break the build and works it gets pulled -
>>> but remember right now there's 1 dev... so expect lag time (maybe a
>>> week) until there are 2 or 3 or more devs capable of code reviewing,
>>> building, and testing - because you need those checks
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>>> If you need help getting an environment for compiling set up on
>>> windows or linux - I'm happy to help.  Pop into irc.  If you're really
>>> ambitious someone could update the documentation :)
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>>> Also php-gtk could really use someone to roll releases.  We actually
>>> should have had about 3-4 - there's been new functionality added and
>>> build fixes done and features integrated.. just no release.
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>>> For example - there is complete gtkbuilder integration in the git
>>> version of php-gtk (that's the format glade3 outputs btw) - but none
>>> of that is documented beyond some demo files.
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>>> Thanks,
>>> Elizabeth M Smith
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>>> --
>>> PHP-GTK Development Mailing List (http://gtk.php.net/)
>>> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>>=20
>> --
>> PHP-GTK Development Mailing List (http://gtk.php.net/)
>> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
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> --=20
> PHP-GTK Development Mailing List (http://gtk.php.net/)
> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
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