Re: [PHP-GTK] Status of PHP-GTK

FGM wrote:
> Maybe this will sound like blasphemy, but wouldn't it be more reasonable 
> to ignore the far-fetched multiformat, docbook, php.net-integrated, 
> approach and go for something more lightweight that would be completely 
> (X)HTML-based using a CMS in massive use (you know which one I'd 
> recommend) ?

Yep, that's blasphemy alright :)

The aim... yes there is an aim... is to have all php.net documentation work in the same way, using industry standard tools, so that someone who has written for the PHP-GTK Manual can easily transfer to the PHP Manual and vice versa. Outside of php.net, the skills acquired here are transferable to pretty much any major OSS project, and also to most technical authoring jobs.

Also, think 'branding'. php.net stuff should always clearly be php.net stuff.

> Is it better to have a "clean", enterprise-type, XML-centric process 
> yielding only PDFs over 1 year old which only specialists can build 
> anyway when the system is broken, 

Ugh... you don't need special skills to build the manual.

or to have something which is mostly 
> web-centric, with an easy content redaction UI, and is constantly alive, 
> using a CMS site technology which over 100k people know how to 
> run/maintain, with serious community interaction features being 
> maintained by the CMS community instead of the PHP-GTK devs who are 
> already swamped in work and have more important things to do regarding 
> PHP-GTK than working on a web site ?
> 
> I'll gladly admit that it would obviously hit harder on the server 
> resources because such frameworks are inherently heavier, but is it 
> really a problem considering the actual frequentation ?
> 
> Of course, this doesn't come out of the blue: I've been suggesting this 
> approach more or less since late 2007, and its initial rejection was 
> what led me to create php-gtk.eu, so that the lost wiki pages and apps 
> repository from gtk.php.net would be available again.

The 'lost wiki pages' were thrown out because the wiki was spammed mercilessly over a long period of time and there weren't enough hours in the day to contain it. And the apps repo is old, old, old... it never went live after PHP-GTK 2 came out, so anything in there from our servers dates from v1.

> And in case this isn't perfectly clear, should this turn be taken, I'd 
> gladly take part in the migration process, just like I did for the wiki 
> and apps sections. And several community members already use this same 
> CMS for their own sites, so I wouldn't be the only one knowing it.

I think, given the experience we had with the wiki, it would be very unlikely that Andrei would want to take the risk again on a Yahoo! server carrying a whole bunch of php.net sites.

- Steph

> 
> Frederic
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steph" <[email protected]>
> To: "Andre Colomb" <[email protected]>
> Cc: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 11:08 AM
> Subject: Re: [PHP-GTK] Status of PHP-GTK
> 
> 
> 
>> Concerning the state of the manual: What would it take to fix the build
>> system? It worked at one time, but all I hear is that it needs to be
>> updated to DocBook V5. Whoever broke it should just fix the damn thing
>> so the old DocBook V3 sources can still be maintained.
> 
> Agreed 100%. Last build December 2007 - what happened in December 2007 
> that made it stop working?
> 
> After all, it is
>> in a VCS where one can go back in time, right? I don't see a realistic
>> chance that anybody will step up and rewrite the whole manual just for
>> fun. Besides, there is still the problem with OOP support in DocBook I
>> presume?
> 
> Yep. Although DocBook version 5 was supposed to address that problem, 
> the approach hasn't been quite what we might have hoped, in that it 
> isn't a good match for PHP-GTK's needs. (I did look at it, just my heart 
> sank when I did.)
> 
>> I know I'm only saying what "should be done". If there was an easy way,
>> I'd gladly help with the documentation. Until then, I'll just try to
>> post whatever problems (and solutions) I come across to the ML and other
>> public places. Unfortunately I don't have the time to work on the big
>> problems, so this is my way to contribute.
>>
>> All developers, keep up the nice work even if it's in the shadows to the
>> common subscriber :-)
>>
>> Regards, Andre
>