Vhost-guest (was virtio vhost-user) vs virtio-msg

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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Date: Thu, 28 May 2026 02:59:13 -0400
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Subject: Vhost-guest (was virtio vhost-user) vs virtio-msg
To: Manos Pitsidianakis <[email protected]>,
 Parav Pandit <[email protected]>, Alyssa Ross <[email protected]>,
 Rob Bradford <[email protected]>, Bo Chen <[email protected]>,
 "[email protected]" <[email protected]>,
 Spectrum OS Development <[email protected]>
Cc: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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Content-Language: en-US
From: Demi Marie Obenour <[email protected]>
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In-Reply-To: <CAAjaMXYGMTok_a2CJK8aKSqbTbgLx1CbkCVZw2VnZdJVuPJ38w@mail.gmail.com>
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On 5/28/26 01:47, Manos Pitsidianakis wrote:
> On Thu, May 28, 2026 at 8:22=E2=80=AFAM Parav Pandit <[email protected]>=
 wrote:
>>
>>
>>> From: Demi Marie Obenour <[email protected]>
>>> Sent: 28 May 2026 05:23 AM
>>> To: [email protected]
>>> Subject: MSI-X vector limits and reserving a virtio device ID
>>>
>>> I'd like to reserve a virtio device ID for virtio vhost-guest,
>>> formally virtio vhost-user.  Would this be possible?
>>>
>> Vhost user is an implementation of the device.
>> I believe it stays as implementation and not a new device type.
>=20
> This exactly.
>=20
> Furthermore, we already have a mechanism for "providing" an arbitrary
> virtio device; it's called a transport.
>=20
> Demi, I suggest you look into virtio-msg transport, which would allow
> you to do what you want.

I'm aware of virtio-msg, and in fact considered using it.  However, I
found that virtio-msg doesn't meet my requirements.

1. Virtio-msg needs to run over a transport of its own.  None of the
   proposed transports support KVM guests on x86.  FF-A is the only
   one that would make sense with KVM, but FF-A is specific to Arm.

2. Virtio-msg isn't compatible with existing frontend VMMs.
   Vhost-guest can be used with any frontend VMM that implements
   vhost-user.

3. Virtio-msg isn't compatible with existing frontend drivers.  While I
   expect that drivers for Linux will eventually be upstreamed,
   I doubt that drivers for Windows or *BSD will ever be written.
   I don't even know if the Windows Driver Framework provides enough
   to write one.  I don't need this myself, but I suspect that this
   is enough to make virtio-msg unsuitable in many environments.
  =20
4. Virtio-msg requires invasive changes to existing userspace device
   implementations.  The project I work on doesn't use QEMU, and the
   existing frontends are targeted at server use-cases.  Using the
   vhost-user protocol lets me reuse these with little effort.

5. To the best of my knowledge, virtio-msg doesn't support live
   migration of frontend VMs.  Vhost-guest uses the vhost-user
   protocol, which has supported this for a very long time.  I don't
   need live migration myself, but for many server use-cases, not
   having live migration is a dealbreaker.
  =20
6. I don't know if virtio-msg can achieve comparable performance.
   It appears to be optimized for reliability and isolation,
   not processing tens of gigabits of network traffic per second.
   Vhost-guest is designed with performance in mind.

Vhost-guest is designed for storage and networking appliances on
servers, whereas virtio-msg is designed for safety-critical embedded
systems.  These domains have very different requirements, and as a
result they arrived at very different solutions.

I work on Spectrum (https://spectrum-os.org), which uses Cloud
Hypervisor.  As the name implies, Cloud Hypervisor is primarily
intended for cloud workloads, though it can also be used on clients.
I don't think that an implementation of virtio-msg would be accepted,
as it benefits none of Cloud Hypervisor's other users.
--=20
Sincerely,
Demi Marie Obenour (she/her/hers)
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Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="OpenPGP_signature.asc"
Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="OpenPGP_signature.asc"

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