Re: [PATCH v6 03/12] PCI: liveupdate: Track incoming preserved PCI devices

On Mon, Jun 29 2026, David Matlack wrote:

> On Thu, Jun 25, 2026 at 7:35 AM Pratyush Yadav <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> Hi David,
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 15 2026, David Matlack wrote:
>>
>> > On 2026-06-14 01:38 PM, Pasha Tatashin wrote:
>> >> On Fri, 22 May 2026 20:24:01 +0000, David Matlack <[email protected]> wrote:
>> [...]
>> >> > +  }
>> >> > +
>> >> > +  pci_info(dev, "Device was preserved by previous kernel across Live Update\n");
>> >> > +  dev->liveupdate.incoming = dev_ser;
>> >> > +
>> >> > +  /*
>> >> > +   * Hold the ref on the incoming FLB until pci_liveupdate_finish() so
>> >> > +   * that dev->liveupdate.incoming does not get freed while it is in use.
>> >> > +   */
>> >>
>> >> How would that work? If finish is not called FLB stays around until the
>> >> next reboot.
>> >
>> > True... I think if the PCI core trusts drivers to call
>> > pci_liveupdate_finish() then we don't need to hold onto the incoming
>> > reference here.
>>
>> That was my point when I was arguing against refcounts on outgoing FLBs.
>> This is very easy to abuse, especially when we are talking about device
>> drivers. And this refcounting mechanism makes the FLB no longer
>> file-lifecycle-bound, since now it is entirely up to drivers to decide
>> the lifecycle of this data.
>
> The PCI core holds a reference to the incoming FLB for as long as it
> maintains a pointer to that FLB in struct pci_dev
> (dev->liveupdate.incoming). The lifetime of that pointer is aligned
> with the lifetime of the file as long as the driver calls
> pci_liveupdate_finish() in its file finish() callback.
>
> If there is a bug in the driver that causes it to not call
> pci_liveupdate_finish() then the FLB will leak past the file yes. But
> the alternative would be to leak a pointer to freed memory in
> dev->liveupdate.incoming, which could lead to UAF.
>
> Leaking the FLB seems safer than UAF, which is why I went for the
> refcounting approach.

Hmm, that does make sense. I still feel a bit odd doing this, but since
I don't have any better ideas, I think let's keep this as-is. If this
does turn out to be a real problem, we can fix it later. This is kernel
internal API anyway.

Also, I didn't know the plan was to do VFIO only. I thought at some
point in the near future we will get support for PF drivers. With only
VFIO, I think this is a lot simpler and problems will be a lot easier to
fix since there is only one user. I was mainly worried about random
drivers holding on to PCI/LUO core data structures.

>
> Another approach entirely would be to drop the
> dev->liveupdate.incoming and do the xarray lookup everytime instead.

But then you'd need to have a lifetime for the xarray, no?

>
>>
>> I have been thinking about this a bit more in the last couple days, and
>> I wonder if we are doing this right. Here's an idea I have been thinking
>> of.
>>
>> We should make live update a first class citizen in PCI. Instead of
>> patching in liveupdate via the liveupdate.incoming field, and letting
>> drivers figure out when to use it, we should separate out probe and
>> retrieve paths entirely.
>>
>> Probe and retrieve are fundamentally different operations. While they
>> may share some common initialization logic for the _software_ state, how
>> they interface with the hardware is completely different. I think mixing
>> the two will result in driver code being more spaghetti by having
>> liveupdate checks sprayed out all over.
>
> We are only planning on supporting Live Update for VFIO drivers for
> the forseeable future. The VFIO work during probe is almost entirely
> software state setup. The only hardware logic we need to "if" out in
> the vfio-pci driver's probe() is putting the device into a low-power
> mode via the runtime power manager. So I don't think we will get any
> benefit from this approach, and it would be a lot more intrusive to
> both the PCI core driver framework, and VFIO itself, to support this.
>
>> This series doesn't add support for any drivers, but looking at some of
>> the code we have downstream, I see this problem. The liveupdate code is
>> all over the place in the driver and it is very hard to wrap one's head
>> around how the device is actually retrieved.
>
> You can find the vfio-pci driver changes here:
>
>   https://lore.kernel.org/kvm/[email protected]/
>
> Let's keep the discussion focused on upstream VFIO drivers since that
> is all we are planning to support right now due to LUO's requirement
> of file-based preservation. The downstream driver changes we are
> carrying is not reflective of what we want to support upstream.
>
>> So I think PCI core should track preserved devices, and if the device is
>> preserved, it should skip the probe and wait for retrieve. Retrieve does
>> the full initialization of the device. This fits in with the LUO model
>> as well. You can make retrieve a callback of struct pci_driver and do
>> some wrappers to talk with LUO, so device drivers don't directly
>> interface with LUO at all.
>>
>> We should do similar things on the shutdown path. Shutdown is a
>> fundamentally different operation from freeze, and so we should separate
>> them out as well.
>
> This is speculative. In practice, we haven't needed to change VFIO's
> shutdown() or probe() functions so far. The only change I anticipate
> needing is skipping runtime power management "put" during probe() I
> mentioned above.
>
> If we actually made retrieve() a first-class callback and used that
> instead of probe(), VFIO would internally just call its probe()
> function because that would be the cleanest way to set up all the
> software state it needs to manage the device.

Right, for only VFIO this doesn't make much sense. I wrote this thinking
we will add PF preservation support at some point.

>
>> This solves the lifetime problem as well. When PCI core is initializing,
>> it knows for sure that no retrievals are going to happen. That's because
>> none of the drivers have registered yet. So it can safely access the FLB
>> and initialize its state. After that, drivers can register themselves
>> and start accepting retrieve() calls. Once the last driver goes away,
>> the FLB is freed automatically.
>
> It's not so simple. The PCI core does not really initialize itself.
> Scanning devices gets triggered externally, e.g. by ACPI, device
> trees, runtime hotplug events, etc., and that is when the PCI core
> gets notified about a device. None of this is synchronized with "when
> drivers have registered", which I assume you are referring to
> registering with LUO.
>
>>
>> I am sorry for suggesting a big refactor at v6, but the early versions
>> looked good to me at the time, and I only thought more deeply about this
>> when trying to figure out how we can make the lifetimes cleaner.

-- 
Regards,
Pratyush Yadav