Re: The Case for a New Site for Perl Beginners

Hi.

On Thursday 31 August 2006, Jonathan Scott Duff wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 31, 2006 at 05:34:32PM +0300, Shlomi Fish wrote:
> > On Wednesday 30 August 2006 23:03, brian d foy wrote:
> > > I in no way intended it to be funny or light. I fyou have a change,
> > > send it in. Complaining about not having the source is no an excuse for
> > > not sending changes.
> >
> > Well, sure. Here's my first change:
> >
> > 1. Add a button to the top saying "Online Tutorials".
> >
> > 2. Add the following HTML at the page pointed to it:
> >
> > http://www.shlomifish.org/perl-tutorials.html.wml
> >
> > I'll be waiting for it to be applied before I send my next change.
>
> Er, why? What if the stewards of learn.perl.org reject your change?
> Perhaps you should start a dialogue regarding these changes first.

They can reject my change, but it won't be good for learn.perl.org or be good 
for Perl. 

>
> Yes, I realize you could consider the last 3 or so years of email a
> "dialogue" but it's sounded more like a monologue to me. For instance,
> bdf is under the impression that you want to "take over" learn.perl.org.
> He is not alone in that impression. Most of your emails to this point
> have sounded like "learn.perl.org sucks and I can make it better if
> you'd just let me change it"
>

That were my emails, and these are indeed the case. I don't want to do 
anything that is against Perl, just to mend it so it will be better.

> And above, presupposing that your changes will be applied doesn't win
> you any friends either. If it's possible, you should try to start over
> and be a little more humble in your requests. Start with "here's a small
> change to learn.perl.org that I think will benefit the perl community"
> and go from there. Your text above is agressive and pushy--"here's a
> change, I'll be waiting for you to apply it"
>

> Be less pushy.
>

Be less pushy? After I was accused of being a liar? After people think I won't 
do anything if I get access to the source? After I don't understand why the 
source for learn.perl.org is unavailable, while the source for perl-begin.org 
has been available since its inception? After I wasn't able to subscribe to 
the beginners-workers mailing list?

Fine. I'll be less pushy:

<<<<<<<
Hi people! Here's a nice change to learn.perl.org. Please, oh pretty please 
apply it. It will be good for you and it will be good for Perl.
>>>>>>>

I don't plan to take over learn.perl.org - I just want to improve it.

> > > He has his own site. He can do whatever he wants
> > > there.
> >
> > I know, which I am doing. Still I would like to see learn.perl.org
> > improved too. And if perl-begin is in ship-shape but no one is aware of
> > it, then what has the wise men helped with their ruling?
>
> Sounds like you've spent too little time promoting perl-begin. 

Maybe I did.

> If the 
> "standard" perl sites aren't giving in to your requests, then a way to
> make things better is to create and promote your own sites such that
> they become the "standard". It doesn't matter if learn.perl.org is given
> in books and what not if you do a good job promoting your site *and*
> it's clearly a better resource.  Darwin always wins in the end.
>

I'll do that.

Regards,

	Shlomi Fish

BTW: I'm in a bad mood now. Don't take what I said personally.

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Shlomi Fish      [email protected]
Homepage:        http://www.shlomifish.org/

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