Re: Supercompiled Perl

  Valentin,

  Thanks for your reply.  One of the most attractive and distinct features
of Perl is its expressive power -- there are many ways to achieve a goal
or an effect and there is a lot of interplay between syntax and
semantics.  As such, Perl code is notoriously difficult to parse and
interpret correctly.  Writing a Perl interpreter is a non-trivial
task.  Do you think Refal's approach of evaluation by substitution makes
it easier in any way to deal with Perl's fluid syntax?  If so, why?  

  -- Jordan


On Tue, 7 Aug 2001, Valentin Turchin wrote:

> Hello, Jordan.
> 
> The principle of supercompilation is applicable to any programming language. And yes,
> in the last analysis, the goal is to speed-up a given program. But due to speed-up we often
> can allow programming styles which, without supercompilation, entail the loss of efficiency
> which we could not afford. I speak, in the first place, of interpreters of various kinds which
> a supercompiler converts, once the interpreted text is given, into an efficient
> compiled program, thus working as a universal compiler. Years ago I wrote in Refal
> an interpreter of a subset of Pascal which after supercompilation worked 40 times faster.
> With interpretation of regular expressions, prominent in Perl,  the speed-up is, if I remember 
> correctly, something like 15. With a neatly written program without parts given beforehand
> there will be no speed-up at all.
> 
> You can use supercompilation with Perl in two ways.
> (1) Write an interpreter of Perl in Refal and use it with the existing supercompiler SCP4
> (written by myself and Andrei Nemytykh). As I said above, the goal is double: speed-up
> and possible invention of new ways of programming in Perl -- with heavy interpretation.
> (2) Write a new supercompiler in the language of your choice. The same goals.
> 
> Andrei Klimov and Andrei Nemytykh may write you with more detail.
> 
> Regards.
> 
> Valentin Turchin
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jordan Dimov <[email protected]>
> To: Valentin Turchin <[email protected]>
> Cc: [email protected] <[email protected]>; Helmut Enck-Radana <[email protected]>; John Porter <[email protected]>; Simon Cozens <[email protected]>
> Date: Monday, August 06, 2001 06:08 PM
> Subject: Re: Supercompiled Perl
> 
> 
> >
> >  Valentin,
> >
> >  Could you please write a short message to this list explaining what
> >benefits you see in a Perl supercompiler?  Is it just a speed isue?  Why
> >do you think Perl is suitable for the type of transformations that you
> >have studied?  
> >
> >  Thank you very much!
> >
> >  -- Jordan
> >
> >On Mon, 6 Aug 2001, Valentin Turchin wrote:
> >
> >> Dear Helmut,
> >> 
> >> Thanks a lot for your letter.  Writing a supercompiler for PERL is a very good idea.
> >>  Should anybody embark on it, we in the Refal group will gladly share our experience.
> >> 
> >> Best wishes.
> >> 
> >> Valentin Turchin
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Helmut Enck-Radana <[email protected]>
> >> To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
> >> Cc: Jordan Dimov <[email protected]>; John Porter <[email protected]>; Simon Cozens <[email protected]>
> >> Date: Saturday, August 04, 2001 02:46 PM
> >> Subject: Re: Supercompiled Perl
> >> 
> >> 
> >> >John Porter wrote:
> >> >>Jordan Dimov wrote:
> >> >>>Turchin has founded a start up (www.supercompilers.com) with the purpose 
> >> >>>of developing a supercompiler for Java, speeding up Java code by a factor 
> >> >>>of 100.
> >> >>
> >> >>The culture of Java encourages fantastic hyperbole.
> >> >
> >> >Simon Cozens wrote:
> >> >>Jordan Dimov wrote:
> >> >>>Is anyone here familiar with the concept of supercompilation, as 
> >> >>>described by prof. Valentin Turchin in [1] for example?
> >> >>>[...]
> >> >>>[1] ``The Concept of a Supercompiler'', Valenting F. Turchin, ACM Trans. 
> >> >>>Program. Lang. Syst. 8, 3 (Jul 1986), pp. 292-325
> >> >>
> >> >>I've read this.
> >> >>[...]
> >> >>This isn't anything new, since most compilers do this anyway.
> >> >
> >> >This must be a misunderstanding. As far as I understand modern 
> >> >supercompilers are capable of transforming an interpreter into a compiler. 
> >> >This seems to be just too revolutionary for most people to believe. The 
> >> >speed-up factor of course depends on the kind of application. More 
> >> >important is the idea to allow writing programs on a level of abstraction 
> >> >which was not possible so far. Obviously there must be some hindrances for 
> >> >the wide-spread use of this technology. Possibly the publicly available 
> >> >tools only work on some advanced programming languages which aren't 
> >> >understood by a lot of programmers, and may be they aren't very easy to 
> >> >apply in ordinary practise.
> >> >
> >> >There are quite a few papers about the subject, some of which can be found 
> >> >here:
> >> >http://citeseer.nj.nec.com/cs?q=supercompiler&submit=Search+Documents&am=50
> >> >http://www.refal.com/english/s_compil.htm (home of supercompilation with 
> >> >Refal, online examples)
> >> >http://www.diku.dk/topps/bibliography/bibl-aut.html (search for 
> >> >/supercompil(er)|(ation)/ yields lots of hits)
> >> >http://www.diku.dk/users/rambo/publications.html (Master's Thesis with 
> >> >detailed remarks about history)
> >> >http://www.dina.dk/~jesper/PEsummerschool/ (educational implementation & 
> >> >tutorial)
> >> >http://www.dina.kvl.dk/~jesper/CASE/ (educational implementation, examples)
> >> >
> >> >>>Is Perl suitable for this kind of program transformation?
> >> >>
> >> >>Of course.
> >> >
> >> >Jordan, possibly this wasn't the best mailing list to ask questions about 
> >> >that subject. You could have more luck when you direct them to the Refal 
> >> >mailing list:
> >> >
> >> >mailto:[email protected]
> >> >
> >> >The archive can be browsed here:
> >> >
> >> >http://www.botik.ru/mail-archive/refal/
> >> >
> >> >(Most messages are in Russian, but questions which are posted in English 
> >> >are also replied to in English. Also some of the Russian messages are 
> >> >nearly understandable after applying online-translation. Watch out not to 
> >> >execute the attachment Microsoft_Word__3_.doc.bat.)
> >> >
> >> >-- Helmut
> >> >
> >> >(BCCed to Valentin F. Turchin, Andrei V. Klimov, Andrei P. Nemytykh)
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >________________________________
> >> >
> >> >Helmut Enck-Radana
> >> >Paradigma Software GmbH
> >> >http://www.paradigma-software.de
> >> >________________________________
> >> >
> >> >
> >> 
> >
> >
>