Re: I do not like giving references as part of the candidate assessment process

True. I was referring to an interview with the actual
company.



--- John Von Essen <[email protected]> wrote:
> Wait a minute, a recruitor that can read source
> code? Most of recruitors I
> have dealt with can barely read my resume...
> 
> -jve
> 
> On Wed, 24 Mar 2004, Anthony Ettinger wrote:
> 
> > References are total bs way of determining
> anything
> > anyway, obviously you're going to talk with the
> > reference ahead of time to make sure they say the
> > right stuff.
> >
> > Typically recruiters ask for references so they
> can
> > pitch their firm's services to your references.
> >
> > If they want to know how well you program, show
> them
> > the source code. They can get a good idea about
> your
> > character in the face-to-face interview.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- Terrence Brannon <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > This message is a cleaner re-write of an earlier
> > > assault on the
> > > irksome convention of some employers requiring
> > > references as part of
> > > the interview process.
> > >
> > > URL to previous discussion thread:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg00433.html
> > >
> > > WHY REFERENCES SUCK IN GENERAL
> > >
> > > 1/ They require the time of the reference. 15
> > > minutes per reference
> > > phone call means 2-3 hours out of each
> references
> > > work week during a
> > > typical job search. Your reference (and his
> boss)
> > > will love you for
> > > taking up his time.
> > >
> > > 2/ The reference and/or his company can get in
> legal
> > > trouble. Oracle,
> > > for example, has a policy that its employees
> will
> > > not give references
> > > to former employees. The extent of referent
> > > information is manager
> > > name and time and location of employment. I
> worked
> > > at Oracle. I can't get
> > > a character or technical reference from them. I
> love
> > > the skeptical looks I
> > > get when I try to explain this to people.
> > >
> > > 3/ They allow a bad boss one more shot at
> tyranny.
> > > If you worked for a
> > > jerk, then what? As an extreme example, assume
> that
> > > Martin Luther King
> > > worked for 3 closet white supremacists. Would he
> > > ever get a good
> > > reference? Probably not. But that doesn't mean
> that
> > > he is a bad
> > > person.
> > >
> > > 4/ People move, retire, die, or go belly up: I
> > > worked during the dot-com
> > > era. That's 3 years worth of references that I
> will
> > > never be able to
> > > resource because all of those people have bitten
> the
> > > dust. I guess
> > > that makes me a bad person.
> > >
> > > WHY TECHNICAL REFERENCES SUCK
> > >
> > > 1/ If you want to know how good I am
> technically,
> > > break out the
> > > appropriate technical test.
> > >
> > > WHY CHARACTER REFERENCES SUCK
> > >
> > > 1/ Let's assume that a character reference is a
> good
> > > way of knowing
> > > how good person X is. If this is true, then you
> > > really must have
> > > references for the references of person X before
> you
> > > can trust the
> > > references of person X. And you must have
> references
> > > for the
> > > references of the references of the references
> of
> > > person X before you
> > > can know how good the references for person X
> are.
> > >
> > > Logically:
> > >
> > >    X good => (references for X good)
> > >   (references for X good) => (references for
> > > (references for X) good)
> > >   (references for (references for X) good) =>
> > >        (references for (references for
> (references
> > > for X)) good)
> > >
> > > So we see that we have a recursive and
> > > non-terminating algorithm for
> > > determining if X is good.
> > >
> > > The self-referential unsolvable nature of the
> > > character reference
> > > proof system shows its fallibility.
> > >
> >
> >
> > =====
> > Anthony Ettinger
> > [email protected]
> > http://www.apwebdesign.com
> > Instant Messengers:
> > 1) yahoo im: apwebdesign   2) aol im:
> apwebdesignxl
> > 3) msn im: [email protected]   4) icq im:
> 659139
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on
> time.
> > http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
> >


=====
Anthony Ettinger
[email protected]
http://www.apwebdesign.com
Instant Messengers:
1) yahoo im: apwebdesign   2) aol im: apwebdesignxl
3) msn im: [email protected]   4) icq im: 659139

__________________________________
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