Re: [Perl Jobs] inexperienced developer wanted (onsite), United States, IL, Justice

On Mon, 10 Jan 2005, Paris Sinclair wrote:

> "crap" of course probably meaning much more than the typical "inexeperienced" 
> but capable person will actually accept in the current tech job market. This 
> is because, most of them end up with a non-tech job.
>
> It amazes me, it continues to amaze me, the level of arrogance "you people" 
> flaunt around, even when those of us less rich have in the past expressed how 
> insulting the "low" pay whines are.
>
> Maybe there should be another list, [email protected] where you could post 
> these superfluous-but-insulting pay rate discussions.

You know, I'm sympathetic to the point you're making, but the _way_ you 
make it pretty much guarantees people will write you off as a hostile 
jerk, because you're acting like a hostile jerk.

Yes, it's true that programmers in general are still getting better 
salaries than people in many other fields, particularly people in 
so-called "working class" jobs.

Nonetheless, that does not excuse employers who look to take advantage of 
people's inexperience in order to pay them signficantly less than the 
market rate.  When a company like Walmart or McDonalds screws over its 
workers, I'm sure you're up in arms, and justifiably so.  What those 
companies do is reprehensible.

Attempting to do anything like that in another field, even one that's 
traditionally more highly paid, is _still_ reprehensible.  To criticize 
that is not taking a position on inequity in pay scales, though you seem 
to assume it is.

> So I think, these people hiring specifically less experienced programmers, 
> should be commended for their support of the young programmers. Instead of 
> whined about. It is neither fair, nor good for the industry, to have a big 
> age gap, to have a decade where nobody gets to start out in the field.

If you came down off the moral high horse for a second you might realize 
that this thread started because the job posting in question was worded in 
a very amusing way.  Asking of an "inexperienced developer" as opposed to 
advertising a "junior" position is odd just by itself.  But to then follow 
it up with "bedazzle me with your technical abilities" seems rather 
contradictory.

This is simply funny.  Some of us, like myself, are cynical enough to 
think this might simply be a bold-faced attempt to hire someone really 
good who won't ask for a market salary, thus my comment.  My comment was 
also intended as a warning for anyone thinking of applying.  People should 
go in with their eyes open.  I wish someone had told me more about how 
this sort of stuff worked (particularly in contracting) when I was first 
looking for a programming job.


-dave

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